[Ibogaine] Dana and Sara

DC in AZ dcollier9 at cox.net
Sat Jul 12 08:57:02 EDT 2008


or just smoke a bong load , and ferget it all...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don zo
"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
__________________________________________________

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Faulconer" <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dana and Sara


          It's been pretty quiet around here as of late about this
issue. Since you brought it up again Vector, I would like to say one
more thing, and then bow out.

      Nobody wants to have to choose one person or the other, nobody
that I know of anyway. I would think that these two leaders in our
movement couild come to some kind of understanding without shredding
the reputation of the other.

       Spread the Love

             Randy

On 7/12/08, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Simon and Broc, both of you have shown you are too stoned to be reading
> anything right now, go to dana beal's corner ;)
>
> Dana and Sara would the two of you please somehow deal with each other? 
> Sara
> I think you're an amazing healer and have been reading your words for alot
> of my life, I do think alot of what you say may be true, dana throws away 
> a
> lot of money. I also truly think that sending people private email off 
> list
> about Dana isn't the way to resolve it. I hear you, I'm listening but I
> don't think that all of mindvox is some conspiricy that protects dana and
> makes the world see everything his way. I do think Dana and Patrick are
> friends and all, I do think Dana has helped a lot of people here, so have
> you. I really wish you'd both talk to each other, Please?
>
> .:vector:.
> --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Dave Brockman <davebroc at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four pillars" drug policy
>> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 3:53 AM
>> I was wondering the same thing...... you posted a quote as a
>> reply to
>> a cool ibogaine article, that has nothing to do with the
>> article. wtf
>> am i missing?
>>
>> -broc
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 3:33 AM, simon loxton
>> <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Hello;
>> >
>> > Where was that excerpt from?
>> > That would be appreciated; really!.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Si'
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net>
>> > To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> > Sent: Saturday, 12 July, 2008 3:26:35 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vancouver's "four
>> pillars" drug policy
>> >
>> >>>Vancouver's "four pillars" drug
>> policy already includes safe injection
>> >>>sites and prescription heroin for harm
>> reduction. Ibogaine programs
>> >
>> > - what ? how to get RX for horsey-pung in Vancouver ?
>> >
>> > wow
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Donzo
>> > "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Vector Vector"
>> <vector620022002 at yahoo.com>
>> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:43 PM
>> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga Therapy House
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://thismagazine.ca/issues/2008/07/lastrefuge.php
>> >>
>> >> .:vector:.
>> >>
>> >> THE ADDICT'S LAST REFUGE?
>> >>
>> >> B.C.'s Iboga Therapy House is following in a
>> decades-old tradition of
>> >> underground rehab—administering a drug called
>> ibogaine, which has the
>> >> reported side effect of curbing addiction. But can
>> these activists take
>> >> their experiment mainstream?
>> >>
>> >> BY PETER TUPPER
>> >> PHOTOGRAPHY BY REUTERS: ANDY CLARK
>> >>
>> >> The drug rehabilitation facility is an ordinary
>> split-level house in a
>> >> sleepy residential neighbourhood in a small town
>> on B.C.'s Sunshine Coast.
>> >> Inside, the many bookshelves contain everything
>> from psychopharmacology
>> >> textbooks to psychedelic graphic novels. Visitors
>> are welcomed by a small,
>> >> dark-haired woman named Sandra Karpetas. Though
>> she has no formal training
>> >> in medicine, she speaks knowledgeably about
>> neurochemistry.
>> >>
>> >> The people who come here need help. They're
>> looking for a substance called
>> >> ibogaine, a psychotropic drug that is reported to
>> be an addiction
>> >> interrupter. Iboga Therapy House is often the last
>> hope of people wishing
>> >> to free themselves from addiction to heroin,
>> cocaine, prescription
>> >> painkillers or other substances. A potentially
>> powerful tool in the
>> >> treatment of addiction, ibogaine is unregulated in
>> Canada. In the U.S. it
>> >> is a Schedule I controlled substance, alongside
>> heroin, cannabis and LSD.
>> >>
>> >> For decades, an underground network has
>> administered it to addicts in need
>> >> worldwide. But ibogaine's profound effect on
>> the recipient's mind and
>> >> body, which is what makes it an effective
>> treatment, may also be its
>> >> biggest obstacle to acceptance as a medicine. Now,
>> Iboga Therapy House is
>> >> where ibogaine may be recognized as a legitimate
>> medical treatment.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The original Iboga House was founded in 2002 by
>> Marc Emery, B.C.'s
>> >> infamous marijuana activist and seed merchant.
>> Financed by his marijuana
>> >> seed sales, Emery helped deliver ibogaine for free
>> to addicts in the
>> >> Sunshine Coast, personally administering it to
>> close to 70 people. Two
>> >> years later, when financial and legal troubles
>> forced Emery to close the
>> >> house, he encouraged Karpetas, a comrade in the
>> project, to continue the
>> >> work. In 2005, she registered the house as a
>> non-profit, and reopened it
>> >> the following year at a rented property about an
>> hour and a half from
>> >> Vancouver.
>> >>
>> >> The location was chosen to be peaceful and
>> isolated, and kept secret for
>> >> the confidentiality of both clients and staff.
>> Karpetas professionalized
>> >> Emery's operation, setting up protocols for
>> screening patients for mental
>> >> and physical problems at Iboga Therapy House, to
>> reduce potential danger
>> >> and prevent fatalities. Iboga is now a non-profit
>> company, with 10 people
>> >> on call, including a registered nurse, two EMTs,
>> several facilitators, two
>> >> substance counsellors and one follow-up
>> coordinator. There is also an MD
>> >> who acts as a consultant. Karpetas, now
>> Iboga's program director, is one
>> >> of two full-time employees. So far, 59 people have
>> undergone treatment at
>> >> Iboga House.
>> >>
>> >> The not-for-profit, which is no longer free—the
>> five- to seven-day course
>> >> of treatment costs close to $5,000—can generally
>> accept only those who can
>> >> afford it. "There are people in every class
>> who use substances and it's
>> >> not just people who live on the street who become
>> dependent, necessarily,"
>> >> says the 32-year-old Karpetas, though the clinic
>> does sometimes donate
>> >> services to addicts in need. Ibogaine, like other
>> detoxification methods,
>> >> is not enough on its own to get people off the
>> streets, and works best on
>> >> people with support systems in place.
>> >>
>> >> People seek out Iboga House after learning of it
>> through word of mouth or
>> >> on the internet. The candidates for treatment are
>> screened for a variety
>> >> of medical conditions, including psychiatric
>> problems, epilepsy, heart
>> >> problems and HIV, and must submit a general
>> medical evaluation from a
>> >> doctor, along with details on their social support
>> network and their plans
>> >> for recovery.
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas is primarily self-educated, but has a
>> background doing
>> >> harm-reduction counselling with addicts. "I
>> have some of the best mentors
>> >> in the world," she says. "I didn't
>> go to university. But my self-education
>> >> has included a lot of workshops, a lot of
>> conferences, reading books,
>> >> talking to people, particularly on the topics of
>> harm reduction,
>> >> psychotherapy, drug education and facilitation.
>> There really is no
>> >> training program for what I do."
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas first heard of ibogaine in the late
>> 1990s, through Jonathan Ott's
>> >> book Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic Drugs, Their Plant
>> Sources and History. At
>> >> the time, she found herself moving in two
>> different worlds; in one, she
>> >> saw people using psychoactive substances for
>> therapeutic and
>> >> self-explorative purposes; in another, she saw
>> people inflicting great
>> >> harm on themselves through drug abuse. Ibogaine
>> seemed to bridge the two
>> >> worlds, a substance that could fight addiction by
>> awakening the mind.
>> >> Despite her interest, Karpetas didn't know
>> there were people distributing
>> >> ibogaine in B.C.
>> >>
>> >> She planned a trip to West Africa to test ibogaine
>> out, but instead had a
>> >> chance encounter with a colleague who told her
>> about Emery's project. She
>> >> immediately contacted him, and toured the facility
>> the following day. "I
>> >> could see that there was some really good
>> potential for philanthropic
>> >> work," she says, "but I could also see
>> that, unless they instituted a
>> >> number of changes to the way they did things, that
>> it could also be
>> >> potentially dangerous." There have been
>> several known fatalities
>> >> associated with ibogaine, though not necessarily
>> caused by it. For
>> >> example, in 2005, a 48-year-old woman died in a
>> Mexican ibogaine clinic
>> >> from acute myocardial infarct and acute coronary
>> syndrome. In 2006, a
>> >> 38-year-old U.S. man died at an ibogaine clinic in
>> Tijuana from pulmonary
>> >> thrombosis. Karpetas says, "They seem to be
>> related to improper medical
>> >> screening, improper monitoring during the therapy,
>> and just a basic lack
>> >> of education on the part of the
>> >> individuals taking it."
>> >>
>> >> The present-day Iboga House provides a controlled
>> setting that minimizes
>> >> these risks. Clients go through a thorough medical
>> screening and wait 12
>> >> hours from the last dose of their drug. When they
>> arrive at the house,
>> >> clients are lead to its lower level, where one
>> room serves as an
>> >> altar-like space with elements of many different
>> religious traditions.
>> >>
>> >> The individual takes a small test dose of ibogaine
>> to ensure no adverse
>> >> reactions, then the full dose in capsules an hour
>> later. The drug causes a
>> >> temporary loss of co-ordination, but also
>> minimizes withdrawal symptoms,
>> >> which can typically include diarrhea, stomach
>> cramps, leg restlessness,
>> >> the inability to sleep, extreme agitation and
>> depression. "The symptoms of
>> >> withdrawal can be very much like the most intense
>> flu you've ever had. It
>> >> lasts for weeks and can be extremely
>> painful," says Karpetas. "None of
>> >> that occurs with ibogaine. I haven't seen
>> anything like [ibogaine]
>> >> anywhere, ever." The rehabilitating trip is
>> intense. Once dosed, the
>> >> patient experiences a dream-like state lasting
>> anywhere from 24 to 36
>> >> hours. An RN and an EMT watch the client
>> constantly during the first 16
>> >> hours, with a portable defibrillator kit, an
>> oxygen tank and a full
>> >> medical bag close at hand, and the local hospital
>> is five minutes away.
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas avoids calling ibogaine
>> "psychedelic," saying instead that it's
>> >> an oneirogen—a dreaminducing substance.
>> "It's like a prolonged waking
>> >> dream experience," she says. "It has a
>> totally different mode of action
>> >> than most of what are termed
>> "psychedelics."
>> >>
>> >> She also emphasizes that ibogaine is no miracle
>> cure. "People really have
>> >> to have a number of things set in place in their
>> life that are going to
>> >> assist them in recovery," she says.
>> "They should have factors such as
>> >> housing, social support, employment or
>> employability skills, or a career
>> >> of some sort, and long-term follow-up and
>> aftercare."
>> >>
>> >> Because of ibogaine's murky legal status,
>> there are few studies of its
>> >> effectiveness. Dr. Ken Alper, an assistant
>> professor of psychiatry and
>> >> neurology at New York University School of
>> Medicine, conducted lengthy
>> >> clinical trials of ibogaine detoxification in the
>> 1990s. In a study of 33
>> >> opioid users, 25 were found free of withdrawal
>> symptoms 24 hours after
>> >> ibogaine treatment, and they showed no
>> drug-seeking behaviour 72 hours
>> >> later. Testing on animals yielded similar results.
>> >>
>> >> Used in the initiation rituals of the Bwiti people
>> in Gabon and Cameroon,
>> >> ibogaine's addiction-treating properties were
>> discovered by a young
>> >> American man named Howard Lotsof in the early
>> 1960s. A drug user, Lotsof
>> >> took ibogaine, which is derived from the bark of a
>> West African bush, and
>> >> experienced a 36- hour trip full of Freudian
>> imagery. Lotsof noticed after
>> >> coming down that "for the first time in
>> months, I did not want or need to
>> >> go cop heroin. In fact, I viewed heroin as a drug
>> that emulated death; I
>> >> wanted life."
>> >>
>> >> He ordered more ibogaine, an uncontrolled chemical
>> at the time, and
>> >> administered it to an informal focus group. Out of
>> the 20 people he
>> >> tested, seven heroin users had no withdrawal
>> symptoms and five had no
>> >> desire to use heroin again during the six-month
>> monitoring period.
>> >> However, hippie culture had no use for ibogaine,
>> which was not a party
>> >> drug, and the U.S. government was criminalizing
>> psychedelic drugs.
>> >>
>> >> Lotsof continued his ibogaine research, despite
>> limited resources and a
>> >> 14-month prison term for conspiracy to sell LSD,
>> and succeeded in getting
>> >> a U.S. patent on the use of ibogaine in narcotic
>> dependency interruption
>> >> in 1985. However, drug companies were indifferent,
>> seeing no profit in
>> >> ibogaine, which is a natural product that
>> can't be patented, and is
>> >> administered in a single, large dose instead of
>> regular, ongoing doses,
>> >> like methadone.
>> >>
>> >> Meanwhile, knowledge of ibogaine's therapeutic
>> use spread by word of
>> >> mouth, and an underground detoxification movement
>> grew in many countries.
>> >> Professional, above-ground clinics in Europe,
>> Mexico and the Caribbean
>> >> provide it, and lay practitioners administer it to
>> addicts in their homes
>> >> or makeshift clinics.
>> >>
>> >> Iboga House is not the only above-ground ibogaine
>> clinic in the world, but
>> >> it is the first to contribute to the slowly
>> growing body of research on
>> >> the drug, in partnership with U.S.-based
>> Multidisciplinary Association for
>> >> Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a nonprofit research
>> organization studying the
>> >> application of psychedelics and marijuana. When
>> Rick Doblin, MAPS founder
>> >> and president, met Karpetas at a conference in
>> 2001, he had long been
>> >> interested in studying ibogaine. He couldn't
>> do so in the United States,
>> >> so jumped at the chance to work with Iboga House,
>> once that became an
>> >> option five years later. "[Karpetas] was
>> willing to be honest, to look at
>> >> the data of how well the treatment worked,"
>> Doblin says. "She welcomed the
>> >> research into the therapeutic context of the
>> clinic, and also the
>> >> spotlight that it would put on her methods."
>> >>
>> >> Since 2006, Iboga House and the MAPS study have
>> worked in parallel. The
>> >> clinic medically screens and treats clients, after
>> which MAPS phones them
>> >> once a month for a year to administer the standard
>> addiction severity
>> >> index interview recognized by the U.S. Food and
>> Drug Administration and
>> >> the National Institute on Drug Abuse, which tracks
>> many aspects of a
>> >> person's life, including drug use.
>> >>
>> >> Ibogaine must be compared with other forms of
>> medicated detoxification,
>> >> which include using general anesthesia in a
>> clinical setting to make the
>> >> patient unconscious through the withdrawal
>> symptoms.
>> >>
>> >> Other treatment programs have high rates of
>> dropouts. A 2004 American
>> >> study found that only 16.6 percent of methadone
>> users completed their
>> >> programs, and even detoxification programs only
>> had a completion rate of
>> >> 62.3. The remainder of participants drop out or
>> are discharged. Treatment
>> >> programs can also leave the patient dependent on
>> regular doses of drugs
>> >> such as methadone.
>> >>
>> >> In contrast to the more institutional programs,
>> Iboga House's philosophy
>> >> and goal is harm reduction, not abstinence. If,
>> after taking ibogaine,
>> >> people reduce their drug use or switch to less
>> dangerous drugs, that's
>> >> still viewed as an improvement. "If they do
>> happen to relapse and they
>> >> need support," says Karpetas "they can
>> call us or the follow-up
>> >> co-ordinator and say, 'Look, I'm feeling
>> like I'm going to relapse or I
>> >> have relapsed once or I had a one-time binge or
>> something.' We're there to
>> >> support them through that period to make sure they
>> essentially understand
>> >> that even if they relapse, they're not
>> complete failures, that they can
>> >> still work toward improving their life." She
>> adds, "Generally, we find
>> >> people who have not succeeded in religion-based or
>> 12-step-based programs
>> >> might have a better chance of succeeding in a
>> program like ours."
>> >>
>> >> Karpetas's goal is that, once demonstrated
>> effective, ibogaine be
>> >> recognized under Canada's Natural Health
>> Products Regulations, as a
>> >> product to be used in a specific protocol in a
>> clinical setting, with
>> >> Iboga House as the model and the results of the
>> MAPS study as evidence.
>> >> "We would like to get accredited in the
>> future," she says. "But that would
>> >> have to go hand-in-hand with demonstrating the
>> effectiveness of ibogaine,
>> >> and trying to get it regulated through the Natural
>> Health Products
>> >> program." A Health Canada official stated in
>> an email that no ibogaine
>> >> containing product has yet been licensed, and it
>> is up to the manufacturer
>> >> to prove that their product is safe, effective and
>> high quality. Also, the
>> >> Vancouver Coastal Health Authority inspected the
>> house in April 2008 and
>> >> found that it didn't come under the Community
>> Care and Assisted Living Act
>> >> because it didn't have the facilities to treat
>> three or more people.
>> >> Karpetas says that her
>> >> house meets all the requirements of the act
>> otherwise.
>> >>
>> >> Ibogaine's therapeutic use has grown in the
>> grey area outside medical and
>> >> scientific authority because of the need for
>> better addiction treatment
>> >> than methadone dependency or anesthetic detox.
>> Underground treatment
>> >> providers continue to operate in the U.S., where
>> ibogaine is highly
>> >> illegal, because they feel people need it enough
>> to take risks. One
>> >> American provider told Karpetas that, if anything
>> went wrong for his
>> >> clients, his emergency procedure was, "I call
>> emergency services and I
>> >> jet."
>> >>
>> >> Regardless of whether legal and medical
>> authorities legitimize ibogaine,
>> >> people will continue using it, just as people keep
>> using drugs.
>> >> Vancouver's
>> >> "four pillars" drug policy already
>> includes safe injection sites and
>> >> prescription heroin for harm reduction. Ibogaine
>> programs like Iboga House
>> >> could be part of the treatment pillar, recognizing
>> that in addiction the
>> >> mind, as well as the body, needs to be healed.
>> >>
>> >> Paula, a 42-year-old woman who had used cocaine
>> intermittently since age
>> >> 19 and recently graduated to smoking crack, says
>> that 12-step programs
>> >> didn't work for her because she was constantly
>> being reminded she was an
>> >> addict. She went through the ibogaine treatment in
>> January 2008. Five
>> >> weeks after her treatment, she says she feels no
>> cravings, has improved
>> >> her health, reconnected with her daughter and is
>> in the process of getting
>> >> her business back. "I know what it's been
>> like going through a treatment
>> >> centre for seven months, and it's not like
>> this," she says. "I don't taste
>> >> cocaine, smell it, want it, crave it, dream it.
>> Nothing at all. I feel
>> >> like I've got a second chance at life, where
>> before I was just going day
>> >> by day, step by step. I don't feel that with
>> this. It's gone."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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