[Ibogaine] Ibogaine is the answer to everything: GDNF IS thestrong theoretical argument!

Vector Vector vector620022002 at yahoo.com
Mon Feb 25 17:40:33 EST 2008


There may not be any long reaching outcome studies, but Mash has
published a lot of ibogaine papers demonstrating efficacy in drug
dependent human beings. Compared to total shit that's a bad joke like
Prometa which is being given a huge amount of acceptance by the
straight medical establishment and has no studies at all supporting
what it does, ibogaine is one of the most studied drugs that's out
there.

True that none of the research has ever gone anywhere but there was a
lot of it during the 90s and early 2000s. If Wodak is saying Mash's
papers aren't good enough, there isn't anything that's going to change
his mind. 

He seems a lot like Peter Cohen, he wants to argue for the sake of
arguing or play devil's advocate but I'm not getting the sense that he
really cares one way or another. It would be nice if he could.

.:vector:.

--- DC in AZ <dcollier9 at cox.net> wrote:

> i thought we were talking about "published" science, ala dr. wodak, 
> something his abstract is "demanding", as if.
> enjoy those, smile.
> dc
>
****************************************************************************************************************************
> Donzo
> "Love converts hearts, and gives peace."
>
****************************************************************************************************************************
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave Brockman" <davebroc at gmail.com>
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine is the answer to everything: GDNF IS
> 
> thestrong theoretical argument!
> 
> 
> > don't wanna get my head bit off by saying something in the middle
> of
> > all this, but there's a shitload of science about ibogaine. a lot
> more
> > then most 'herbal remedies' the only thing i've noticed is that
> there
> > are always these big claims, Glick is developing mc-18, Mash is
> > submitting her data to the FDA, wait lemme check youtube there it
> is,
> > 'next month' that's a vid from 2005
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cowq9EqVjY4
> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5535788820502156331
> >
> > so where is it? its 3 years later. where's mc-18, where's the
> > nor-ibogaine patch, where's the progress?
> >
> > I don't think there's a lack of science, but there is a massive
> lack
> > of any kind of follow through from not any one person but looks
> like
> > every scientist involved with ibo.
> >
> > dana, bro, don't stop the science, your detracters are just trying
> to
> > keep you down, smoking a blunt and listening to you talk science is
> > mad entertaining :-) ok mebbe nothing you say actually makes sense,
> > but nitpicking details is for small minds. the show must go on!
> >
> > btw dana, where's the dirt-cheap synthetic ibogaine your labs were
> > going to produce last year? speaking of no followup whatev happened
> > with all that?
> >
> > sofar as ken alper goes, the bro needs to reup or get some new
> meds,
> > he's one cranky motherfucker of late.
> >
> > -broc
> >
> > On 2/25/08, Eric Madison <ericmadison07 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Dana I have never stated that any particular ibogaine presentation
> should
> >> not be made. I have only directly stated that you're not the one
> who 
> >> should
> >> be giving medical and science based ibogaine presentations. The
> purpose 
> >> of a
> >> presentation is presumably to enlighten the audience regarding the
> topic 
> >> and
> >> subject being presented. Your "science" based talks are to be
> blunt, 
> >> awful.
> >> They're sloppy, incoherent and convey no new level of
> understanding to 
> >> the
> >> audience.
> >>
> >> As I stated in my opening message I do believe that Dr. Wodak's
> abstract
> >> begins in a biased manner. I've seen nothing in his interactions
> with 
> >> Nick
> >> Sandberg to indicate he will change this stance. You have a panel
> with a
> >> sceptic. Accept it instead of throwing tantrums.
> >>
> >> I've no idea what Dr. Cohen said that so "flustered Dimitri he
> quit after 
> >> 5
> >> minutes", while I have not been present at every panel Dimitri has
> ever 
> >> been
> >> part of, those I have attended are all essentially the same power
> to the
> >> people speech which imparts no novel information beyond that of
> ibogaine
> >> working for him and his continued efforts to dose people with
> ibogaine
> >> without medical training or supervision. In New Orleans he wrapped
> up his
> >> motivational talk sooner and began screaming "fuck all of you".
> >>
> >> Be that as it may my points have nothing to do with user activism,
> 
> >> Dimitri
> >> gives the same speech with varying results but he doesn't spend
> his time
> >> trying to impart knowledge or information he doesn't understand in
> the 
> >> first
> >> place. If anything he remains willfully ignorant. That's fine,
> it's 
> >> honest,
> >> it's user activism. No doctor or researcher needs to hear any of
> that, 
> >> but
> >> he doesn't carry on about science he doesn't understand. You do
> Dana.
> >>
> >> Speaking of Dr. Ken Alper, I do realize that this forum is very
> much the
> >> ibogaine gathering, fair enough, but I see a lot of selective
> editing
> >> regarding what participants choose to share here.
> >>
> >> Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Beal, but at your recent Washington DC
> forum,
> >> didn't Dr. Alper publicly berate Howard Lotsof for making specious
> claims
> >> about ibogaine and Hep C? Didn't Dr. Alper have some additional
> thoughts
> >> about your own presentation? My overall impression is that Dr.
> Alper had
> >> issues with both your and Mr. Lotsof's presentations and was quite
> upset 
> >> at
> >> the forum with regards to the "scientific" claims being made for 
> >> ibogaine.
> >>
> >> Did you perhaps attend another ibogaine forum in another universe
> where 
> >> this
> >> did not happen Mr. Beal? Do you imagine that Dr. Wodak will be
> kinder 
> >> then
> >> an M.D. who is already firmly in the ibogaine camp and seems to be
> quite
> >> sick of what's being passed off as the "science" of ibogaine?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Dana Beal <dana at phantom.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The fact remains: in the GDNF finding, there exists the strong 
> >> > theoretical
> >> > argument to justify ibogaine research that Wodak is demanding.
> The big
> >> > concern right now in harm reduction circles about crystal meth,
> and the
> >> GDNF
> >> > stuff shows how ibogaine works for crystal. BTW, Wodak has
> gotten 
> >> > himself
> >> > scheduled for the first international conference on crystal meth
> in
> >> Prague.
> >> > So far my powerpoint has not.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Nor should it be. What do you know about GDNF and ibogaine Dana?
> When I 
> >> look
> >> up this topic, what I see is: Ernest Gallo Clinic and Research
> Center, 
> >> with
> >> Dr. Dorit Ron and colleagues. For some reason I do not find a
> "Dana Beal"
> >> listed anywhere, having any publication in any journal or lay
> magazine,
> >> explaining ibogaine and GDNF. I wonder why that is.
> >>
> >> To bring this back to focus, I am aware of your activism and
> tireless
> >> promotion of ibogaine over the years. I have much respect for
> this. I
> >> honestly do not understand why you feel the need to give
> scientific or
> >> medical presentations about ibogaine though. You contribute
> nothing 
> >> except
> >> making seemingly miraculous claims seem even more ridiculous.
> Saying that 
> >> no
> >> other M.D. or Ph.D. who is sympathetic to ibogaine will attend, so
> you 
> >> have
> >> to give the talks, does nothing to strengthen your claims or
> position.
> >>
> >
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