[Ibogaine] Ibogaine Digest, Vol 6, Issue 97

valerie ouivalerie at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 24 23:55:54 EST 2008


I have the same problem, different substance.  Believe
it or not, it's real true. If I get arrested, or other
impossible position to get my Anacin or Excedrine, and
can't get caffeine, and the right brand, I get a
migraine that has to be as bad as heroin withdraw. A
half a dozen times or more I was in emergency room
with a 10 pain threshhold, I vomit, I can't control my
body, I can't stand any light, it's really bad. Puts
me out for days and days sometimes. I get drugged with
morphine there, sometimes other things. The morphine
in the vein didn't work as well as antihistamine in
the vein, they use in the Boise, Idaho hospital.  You
want to know how bad the pain was?  Several people
took me to the hospital and waited for me! People were
praying. People were scared I was dying. When I had
childbirth and they hit the wrong vein or artery, and
the medicine went into my brain instead of pelvis.
Maybe something makes pain there now.  I had 3 times
in childbirth had to send for doctors and drugs from
other hospitals too.  Doctors ran out and quit,
screaming, angry, calling the psychiatrist to take my
baby away.... After all was calm I was fine and so was
all my babies.  I was in so much pain...they just
didn't get it watching me they saw a maniac scaring
them. It was just too hard to say get my damn
medicine, I had to be dramatic and managed to look
pretty bad. It's ugly that kinda pain...to see how I
could sound and how loud it would be in the hospital
if they didn't do something, hearing someone's pain is
painful in itself. I would break things, kick
people... Damn it hurt, what's it take to get people
to understand? I'm straight my whole life but if I
have pain I can't tolerate that's just my life.  I
tried to be angry and make them give me the medicine
doing anything I could possibly think of, it just hurt
too bad, that's all.  They tried to tell me how much
pain I was in instead of listen. They thought cesarean
section would be appropriate for speeding up
intolerable pain from my childbirth. That really
pissed me off even more! So...there are people that
don't understand that are straight. I do understand.
I'm neither gay, nor do I like ANY drugs, I'm straight
but I'm not perfect.  I get in over my head and had to
learn and use medicine.  My boyfriend is a heroin
addict so I'm always trying to keep him out of pain,
I'm happy to find ibogaine, but happy to learn about
the problems with it also.  
For your problem with the arrest thing, I was called a
crack addict in jail by ALL THE INMATES due to
screaming and being so sick from caffeine withdrawal.
I never too crack.  I didn't even do the crime. It's
the old if you can't find anything better to do
something better can find you thing. For the sceaming,
 I simply have a low pain threshold.  My sisters and
their kids has 27 children already and all natural
childbirth! I always wonder why it didn't hurt them
but me sooo much.  Must be nice.  In the meantime.
They will never understand something i do, withdrawal
pain, is pain.  SINCE THE COPS CAN LOCK ANYONE UP AND
IT's UNPREDICTABLE, methadone is not a solution. 
Forget it.  I hope you find another drug to take with
the ibogaine to work on the sleep disorder. I have
narcolepsy. You have opposite.  Maybe we meet in the
middle. If I had no money and you had only $20.00,
would you dare to give me $10.00? Or are you scared?
There are times I think, my boyfriend is insecure and
can't sleep because he's a loser on this...he won't
give me the $10.00 out of the $20.00.  But I think he
can learn and so can I for our future to trust in the
higher powers to look after us for doing the right
things. He was trying to win, that would mean he can
keep the heroin and have cake and eat it too. But you
lose so much else out of life! It would be better to
give it up, he's got a low pain threshold like me AND
he's deathly afraid of jail considering jail and
homeless shelter a big loss of soul.  He has to move
to Amsterdam or Vancouver or something if that's the
case. There are people that keep heroin or methadone
around til they die that don't get arrested.  I
wouldn't bank on that so...find another route. I'm
against heroin, but stuck with it for now...but it's
because too many people can use it to their advantage
to control people and I'm against them manipulating
people illegally and without professional help. 
Someone I met, took the best heroin for 17 years and
his twins got born and he stopped smoking cigarettes a
the same day, and heroin in 5 days, using liquor for
pain, forever....he sais "it's a piece of cake".  Well
it's 26 years now, and he's at risk again, using
cigarettes again. hanging where the heroin is....the
power of those twins was a lot of help on that I'm
sure, conquering addiction has something to do with
responsibility for others and the right others. Oddly
enough he raised a couple of doctors... 
ouivalerie at yahoo.com

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: any adivice on issue of no REM since
> dosings
>       (Warren L. Theriot)
>    2. Re: not interested! (Randy Faulconer)
>    3. Re: GDNF IS the strong theoretical argument!
> (Randy Faulconer)
>    4. Re: not interested! (jessewood at netzero.net)
>    5. Re: GDNF IS the strong theoretical argument!
> (Nick Sandberg)
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:30:11 -0800
> From: "Warren L. Theriot" <wleetheriot at ca.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] any adivice on issue of no
> REM since dosings
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> <22CBFED3-1F73-4FD4-931D-143E6FCBB222 at ca.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Check out this article from Wired:
>
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/12/sleep_deprivation
> Warren
> 
> On Feb 15, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Dana Beal wrote:
> 
> > Melatonin works for a lot of people. Pot for the
> seizures,  
> > melatonin when you wake up at 3 am and can't go
> back to sleep. Use  
> > sublingual melatonin, put it up above yr two front
> teeth between  
> > lip and gum after half-dissolving it under the
> tongue. I use three:  
> > one left under the tongue for fast action, two in
> the "chipmunk  
> > pouch" for slow release. Great for dreaming.
> >
> > Dana/cnw
> >
> > On Feb 15, 2008, at 1:39 PM, knowone knowwhere
> wrote:
> >
> >> I know what I write might label me as
> "anti-ibogaine" but let me  
> >> say to those people that the "file cabnet" issues
> are part of the  
> >> real scientific methode and like Mash says "the
> plural of  
> >> antidotal does not equal data".
> >> I am all for Ibogaine being studied.  But I have
> had very serious  
> >> issues with lack of REM since my numerous dosing
> with Ibogaine.  I  
> >> have had 3 four hour sleep study EEG's and 1
> three day EEG and no  
> >> REM was shown during any of these studies.  Also
> a continuous  
> >> strobe effect has been bothersome since dosing,
> and I now am told  
> >> I have seizures, which I never had before dosing
> with ibogaine.
> >> I can say some people in the so called Ibo
> community have been  
> >> some of the most kind hearted people I have come
> across, or at  
> >> least seem that way for self interest or for
> whatever reason.
> >> My question to the group is this, has anyone done
> any studies on  
> >> these issues and are their any suggestions for 
> how to get REM  
> >> during Sleep again?
> >> I am seriouslly considering getting back on
> methadone just to  
> >> function, unless anyone has a better idea, even
> though it puts me  
> >> at risk of putting myself in the same situation
> (no methadone  
> >> prescription if arrested) as what made me try
> ibogaine in the  
> >> first place.
> >> Does anyone have any advice or point me to
> studies that address  
> >> these issues?  Howard? Patrick? Marko? Mr. Glick?
>  Any suggestions  
> >> would be appreciated from anyone.
> >> Thank you for your help.
> >> Jason
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.
> >>
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:57:00 -0500
> From: "Randy Faulconer" <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] not interested!
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> 
>
<29d165a30802220657g4f4bd1d2t877626ac820193c8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
>        Hey Jesse, a girl named Jesse? That rocks. My
> handle is
> BiscuitBoy714 I made a mistake when I got this Gmail
> account going and
> left the S out of Biscuitboy now people think I'm Bi
> sometimes. I'm
> not, but I always like to keep people guessing about
> where I'm coming
> from, so what the hey!! Yea, not too many people
> catch on to the 714
> part but that's what I'm referring to is 'Ludes. Yea
> I smoked 'em
> before. Where are you by the way?
> 
>      Stay with us bro :-) we need people who will
> speak out. Asking
> questions here is a good way to find out about
> things. Most everybody
> involved in the Ibo movement are reading this list,
> or at least hears
> about what is going on with this list. There is a
> wealth of info right
> here for the asking. Just ask about anything that
> you aren't sure of.
> If you don't feel comfortable doing so on an open
> forum like this you
> can get hold of me off list and I'll try and help
> you any way I can.
> Ignore what you don't want to hear about and
> concentrate on where you
> are going and what you want out of Ibogaine. Just
> checking out the
> links on the Mindvox site is a real good way to get
> started. Patrick
> Krupa, who runs this list, is a great guy and
> somewhat of a freak
> himself. His story is there somewhere. Check it out.
> As far as
> technical things, he has links to almost every thing
> published. The
> whole history of Ibogaine's development is a great
> read anyway. The
> man who discovered the withdrawal interrupting
> aspects of Ibo, Howard
> Lotsof, is on the list, so you're most defenitly in
> the right place to
> find out about it.
> 
>         Peace Love and The Ibo Family
>                Randy
> 
> On 2/21/08, jessewood at netzero.net
> <jessewood at netzero.net> wrote:
> > Hey Randy Thanks for writing me back with all the
> info. I appreciate you
> > telling me what it's about. I still want to know
> lots more. I like the way
> > you're calling me "Bro". I am a chick though...
> But you can still call me
> > "Bro" if you want :) I also like your e-mail 714
> deffinately one of my most
> > favorites!! In the 70's I was buying them by the
> 100's. Did you ever smoke
> > one? I LOVED LUDES:) Later Man, Jesse
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________
> > SFO from $39! Fly Virgin America
> > Fly from San Francisco to your other favorite
> city. Fares from $39!
> >
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/JKFkuJkEFY7w5uuguhs0fMNhh7mXIm304UAjQPaeNOV6JyOR0wIgYB/
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:21:46 -0500
> From: "Randy Faulconer" <bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] GDNF IS the strong
> theoretical argument!
> To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID:
> 
>
<29d165a30802220721i62d87a8dw1412d6e231e4f044 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
>             What!!! Dimitri??.........totally
> discombobulated?? Heresy
> I say.........can't be true..........this is
> madness............please
> tell me you're mistaken.
> 
>         Peace Love and Greeks
>              Randy
> 
> On 2/21/08, Dana Beal <dana at phantom.com> wrote:
> >
> > Alex Wodak wrote:
> > > Research gets carried out when either: (i) there
> are strong
> > > theoretical arguments why a treatment might
> work; or (ii) there is
> > > some empirical data suggesting that a treatment
> does work.
> >
> > Nick, wasn't the point of all this originally that
> the strong
> > theoretical arguments had been eliminated from the
> Users' Choice
> > Session in Barcelona, and Wodak inserted in their
> place? You may
> > fault my presentation, but I've honed the
> powerpoint and it's quite
> > snappy now. In fact, as I predicted before the
> D.C. forum, I was able
> > to cut the beginning off of it because Ken had
> already explained that
> > stuff, and just focus on the GDNF mechanism. You
> have to understand
> > that they're trying to use GDNF for a lot of
> dopamine-related
> > problems like Parkinson's, even proposing surgical
> implants of little
> > pumps in the brain. So if you could switch on a
> self-reinforcing GDNF
> > loop with ANY compound that would be sufficient
> reason to study it.
> >
> > The empirical data is in Ken's paper, but nothing
> I've seen indicates
> > Wodak has read Ken or Mash's paper except for the
> abstracts.
> >
> > He definitely is not familiar with the work of
> Janak, He, or Dorit
> > Ron. And they were studying ibogaine and alcohol,
> a drug of abuse
> > where there is no complicating considerations of
> an illicit status.
> >
> > I was eliminated from that panel to send a
> message: IHRA wants to
> > have INPUD representing their needle-exchange
> clients, and they don't
> > want those who follow the cannabis/psychedic harm
> reduction path
> > butting in. Even if we're 80% of all users of
> illicit drugs, and our
> > drugs ARE less addictive and safer by any
> objective standard.
> >
> > It's unfortunate that you seem to have fallen for
> Eric Madison's ad
> > hominems in the place of substance. I have my good
> days and my bad
> > days as far as giving a really coherent
> presentation, mostly related
> > to the amount of sleep I get the night before. For
> instance, I didn't
> > get enough sleep before I presented in London or
> in New Orleans, and
> > in addition Peter Cohen ducked out of the room
> instead of coming
> > right before me as he was supposed to -- so I
> couldn't respond, and
> > Dimitri, who came next, was totally
> discombobulated.
> >
> > Very manipulative behavior, if he was really that
> sure of his
> > arguments, I'd say.
> >
> >
> > Dana/cnw
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:28:09 GMT
> From: "jessewood at netzero.net"
> <jessewood at netzero.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] not interested!
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Message-ID:
> <20080222.122809.21097.0 at webmail21.dca.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Hey Randy, Jesse is (or should I say was ) my stage
> name... My real name is Gwen. I live about an hour
> and a half out of D.C. I do want to read more about
> Ibo and what the real deal is. How and where can I
> get the whole lowdown?  Later On, Gwen
>
_____________________________________________________________
> SFO from $39! Fly Virgin America
> Fly from San Francisco to your other favorite city.
> Fares from $39!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/JKFkuJkEFY8jI2CCMPO6d2SOJZybqF01WmTn6b97Vl9Jo0sw734rYF/
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:29:06 -0000
> From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] GDNF IS the strong
> theoretical argument!
> To: "'The Ibogaine List'" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Message-ID: <007001c87591$958fdc00$0401a8c0 at amira>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hey Dana,
> 
>  
> 
> Like I said, I haven't heard you speak recently, so
> for sure you could be
> great now. It was just that I thought that it's
> better to get scientists to
> do academic presentations. I linked Alex to both
> those papers, by the way. I
> think he just prefers his safe position. It seems to
> me to be really about
> something else, but I'm not sure what. I think he's
> scared to be involved in
> backing something he feels might be dangerous,
> something like that. It's a
> shame as he seems a prominent character on the
> scene.
> 
>  
> 
> All the best to you
> 
>  
> 
> Nick
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com
> [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On
> Behalf Of Dana Beal
> Sent: 22 February 2008 01:29
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Subject: [Ibogaine] GDNF IS the strong theoretical
> argument!
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Alex Wodak wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Research gets carried out when either: (i) there are
> strong theoretical
> arguments why a treatment might work; or (ii) there
> is some empirical data
> suggesting that a treatment does work.
> 
>  
> 
> Nick, wasn't the point of all this originally that
> the strong theoretical
> arguments had been eliminated from the Users' Choice
> Session in Barcelona,
> and Wodak inserted in their place? You may fault my
> presentation, but I've
> honed the powerpoint and it's quite snappy now. In
> fact, as I predicted
> before the D.C. forum, I was able to cut the
> beginning off of it because Ken
> had already explained that stuff, and just focus on
> the GDNF mechanism. You
> have to understand that they're trying to use GDNF
> for a lot of
> dopamine-related problems like Parkinson's, even
> proposing surgical implants
> of little pumps in the brain. So if you could switch
> on a self-reinforcing
> GDNF loop with ANY compound that would be sufficient
> reason to study it. 
> 
>  
> 
> The empirical data is in Ken's paper, but nothing
> I've seen indicates Wodak
> has read Ken or Mash's paper except for the
> abstracts. 
> 
>  
> 
> He definitely is not familiar with the work of
> Janak, He, or Dorit Ron. And
> they were studying ibogaine and alcohol, a drug of
> abuse where there is no
> complicating considerations of an illicit status.
> 
>  
> 
> I was eliminated from that panel to send a message:
> IHRA wants to have INPUD
> representing their needle-exchange clients, and they
> don't want those who
> follow the cannabis/psychedic harm reduction path
> butting in. Even if we're
> 80% of all users of illicit drugs, and our drugs ARE
> less addictive and
> safer by any objective standard.
> 
>  
> 
> It's unfortunate that you seem to have fallen for
> Eric Madison's ad hominems
> in the place of substance. I have my good days and
> my bad days as far as
> giving a really coherent presentation, mostly
> related to the amount of sleep
> I get the night before. For instance, I didn't get
> enough sleep before I
> presented in London or in New Orleans, and in
> addition Peter Cohen ducked
> out of the room instead of coming right before me as
> he was supposed to --
> so I couldn't respond, and Dimitri, who came next,
> was totally
> discombobulated.
> 
>  
> 
> Very manipulative behavior, if he was really that
> sure of his arguments, I'd
> say.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Dana/cnw
> 
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