[Ibogaine] The problem is...

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Sat Feb 16 23:49:14 EST 2008


We need to make ibogaine safer because it is in the same category as dope in the states among other countries so we need to be careful that we dont give the people opposing it more ammunition. Personally speaking this is the reason why I have managed to get alot of support from doctors and psychologists etc because they recon if ibogaine is going to help save lives that might not be if it is not tried its worth giving it a go. Its just very early days for me and perhaps I am over doing the caution bit; but I think I make up for that by supporting the underground in some ways; I dont know?


----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Coss <coss at blodgettsupply.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, 17 February, 2008 3:14:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...


Simon,
That’s not my point at all. Every life is precious Every single one. I am just saying that as I sit on the sidelines it sometimes appears that we are more worried about the person taking Ibogaine that shooting up drugs on the street. My guess is that it is safer to take Ibogaine that buying a substance from someone you don’t know and then taking that stuff and injecting into your bloodstream with who knows what for a needle.. That’s all .. I am late for my lurker bus…
Steve



From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of simon loxton
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 7:34 PM
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
 
I have taken people in their 60's through the ibogaine experience to me age does not matter but the argument that they may die anyway does not sit well with me; I would not be happy with some one dying from ibogaine and trying to rationalise that they may be dead in a few weeks; months etc from drug abuse. Then there are other methods that are better or safer; it is better to sort them out so that they are at a point were the dangers of taking ibogaine are minimised. I dont want to blow things out of proportion as I believe ibogaine is relatively safe to take. I just try to make sure at the end of the day if I am involved my conscience is clean and I make sure I am not missing anything that could cause complications. If some one decides to take the risk I would make sure I am not directly connected and have supplied all the facts so they can make an informed decision. I would not like to set back the progress ibogaine has made my contributing to another
 death. There is enough information available even if you just read Howard's site but people still choose to believe what they will in the face of all the evidence. Ultimately it is the individuals choice but if I can help towards an educated one over an emotionally charged one I am happy. People have the right to take what they want and I dont like to preach, I just want people to have realistic hopes and goals when thinking about iboga and also that they would rather go to some one with experience for the simple reason that everyone reacts a little differently and unless you know what you are doing you could panic or do the wrong thing. I just think that being a provider comes with a certain amount of responsibility. 
 
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Coss <coss at blodgettsupply.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, 17 February, 2008 2:14:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
Simon,
While I agree with you I worry that while we are concerned if a 56 year old heroin user will make it thru a Ibogaine experience, 20  teenagers got hooked on oxycontin. I will say again it looks like more people die each year from OD’ing that have taken Ibogaine in the last 25 years
 
 



From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of simon loxton
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:56 AM
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
 
NO I agree but it is a moral problem I have that I feel that if I give information and some thing goes wrong that I am part of it. I suppose it would be easier if some one just hypothetically posed a scenario....its just me but I am sure there are alot of other people who would feel comfortable giving information; still though I think it is better to go to some one with experience just for safety sake. 
 
----- Original Message ----
From: Preston Peet < prestonpeet at yahoo.com >
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 February, 2008 2:18:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
no offense to anyone, but there's that interesting bit about how if we actually described how to turn that 150 root gram bark bits into usable ibogaine for use in treating someone, wouldn't we be breaking major US anti-drug/commonsense laws?
Just a passing thought.
----- Original Message ----
From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:55:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
A couple of million people may have heard about ibogaine but as the recent mis-spelling would indicate very few people have an accurate understanding of iboga or its extracts. I dont know if it is selective attention to the facts; but how is it that some one would go as far as to procure iboga and still not know how to administer it; let alone what dosage to use. Thats what I find scary; not that people have not heard about iboga but that there seems to be the broken telephone wire game going on regarding the facts and alot of ad-libbing. 
 
----- Original Message ----
From: eric priest <ericprst at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 February, 2008 7:15:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...

Vector!

Please. Your experience is anything but humble. Everything you write is an attempt to show how clever you are. Why even the handle .:vector:. is so very cute and clever. Hhmm.... makes me think I should get a clever handle.

You have positioned yourself as the grand historian of the list and frequently remind us of how "this was gone over extensively way back in '02" and blather on about your 'peeps.' Problem is you are often wrong in addition to being annoying. 
I will say it's been fun watching you grow up. Are you still in your teens? Discovered the art of self-pleasure yet? Your first time to vote in a presidential election, no?

Ibogaine has been covered in the NY Times, Village Voice, Miami Herald, Boston Globe, Philadelphia Enquirer, LA Times, LA Weekly, The Guardian, The Georgia Straight, Newsweek, AP, US News & World Reports, Omni, JAMA, Fox News, KRON, KCBS, and of course CSI (20 million people right there) as well as in books. Hardly a suppressed secret consigned to harm reduction meetings or this list. I've heard that the internet has a large audience. Dana would be right in his assessment of millions knowing about ibogaine. Perhaps broadening your social horizons to include people who read newspapers or watch tv may enrich your humble experience. 

So when are you going to take the plunge and take ibogaine? Or is being the know-it-all but never done it expert more your bag? The eunuch in the harem seems fitting metaphor. 

Now do a bong load and think of something witty to write.



Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

Dana it's not that I don't want to believe you, I really do but could
you please enlighten us where your figure of a couple of million people
came from besides your imagination?

In my own humble experience I haven't yet anybody who knows what
ibogaine is that didn't find out about it from either this list, online
somewhere or at some harm reduction conference where ibogaine has made
much progress in the last 5 years but at best you're still only talking
about a very small number of people. 

Marko's figure may be conservative but it's realistic, wishful thinking
could make it double that but no more.

President Kroupa sounds good to me, I'll just go ahead and pencil his
name in on this year's ballot Marko ;)

.:vector:.

--- Dana Beal wrote:

> A lot more than 10,000.. A couple of million at least. And more after 
> 
> this weekend's forum. Maybe said forum will bring ibogaine to the 
> attention of Obama.
> 
> Dana/cnw
> 
> On Feb 14, 2008, at 1:12 PM, marko wrote:
> 
> > here:
> >
> > As I understand, there are about 250 M people living in the US of
> A,
> > and less than 10.000 have ever heard of Ibogaine. The majority is
> on
> > this list.
> >
> > So, the only logical thing is to spread the word! Howard, Patrick, 
> 
> > Dana,
> > Ken, and others, are doing their best to present hard facts to the
> > scientific community (whatever this is) - and elsewhere. But, this
> is
> > not enough.
> >
> > I suggest this:
> >
> > EACH of you citizens of the "Free World" can do a LOT simply by
> > constantly writing to different US-based addiction-related forums.
> > Telling them YOUR stories. Telling them the truth!
> >
> > That's all. Simple and effective.
> >
> > If you do this, if you keep doing this, MindVox will soon need new 
> 
> > mail
> > servers, and not only a handful of people but masses will demand an
> > effective treatment for addiction (= Ibogaine)! And, this will be
> > something which people in charge won't overhear...
> >
> > Please, don't be destructive with second thoughts about this --> be
> > constructive and DO IT! (Thank you for these words, Jerry R.!) Do 
> > it for
> > whatever reason, just D0 iT !!!
> >
> > Who knows, maybe Ibogaine will be the crucial factor in next (not 
> > these)
> > US elections?
> >
> > PATRICK K. KROUPA FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Marko
> >
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