[Ibogaine] The problem is...

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Sat Feb 16 14:11:28 EST 2008


Honestly; recently I have even had people trying to black mail me by saying that if I dont sell them ibogaine they will get it them selves over the net. Or they are going to overdose or get arrested so they would rather take a chance with ibogaine than die using drugs; the manipulation it unbelievable.
I agreed to meet one persistent one of the above and later found out he had a problem with the heart valve. 
Alot of parents or partners even friends think that this is going to be the cure of all the problems; they don’t realise that the answer is already in the person and they go on this emotional rollercoaster ride chasing after this idea about ibogaine and when you go against it  or have a different opinion they just wont listen. 
So for me personally even if the person wanting treatment does not fit the inclusion criteria I am still prepared to sit down with them and have a chat so that they completely understand the situation they are getting into; most of the time what they expect is not plausible or unrealistic. These are the people that unless you find out precisely what they expect can blame you if things don’t play out as they had envisioned. There are alot of people that still think this is a magic bullet that is going to do all the work. These are the people caught up in emotion I am worried about giving the how to approach to. If though it is not possible for the person to go to a treatment centre and they seem to fit all the criteria needed I would assist in helping them with information. 
I was recently having a conversation with some one who possibly did not fit the psychological profile to be accepted for treatment and he even made a comment about lying to a provider and withholding information to be accepted. This is the worst thing to do. My advice to anyone when it comes to ibogaine treatment is you have to be totally honest and clinical in your decision making; it should not be fueled by desperation to the point that it can cause you or the person involved in the process harm or affect your decision making. If ibogaine does not seem appropriate there are other options and before you go and buy ibogaine do the tests and make sure you are prepared to take responsibility for any repercussions if you are not going to go to a provider. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 February, 2008 6:35:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...


I agree with you Simon.  I think a lot of people don’t want to take responsibility for most of what they do.  But the fact is that what we do, can and does effect others and sometimes it effects them severely.  I wouldn’t want to be in the position of having to face the fact that what I said or did contributed to someone’s demise.  That would be a horrible pill to swallow.  A conscience is a good thing.
 
Matt
 



From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of simon loxton
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 8:56 AM
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
 
NO I agree but it is a moral problem I have that I feel that if I give information and some thing goes wrong that I am part of it. I suppose it would be easier if some one just hypothetically posed a scenario....its just me but I am sure there are alot of other people who would feel comfortable giving information; still though I think it is better to go to some one with experience just for safety sake. 
 
----- Original Message ----
From: Preston Peet <prestonpeet at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 February, 2008 2:18:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
no offense to anyone, but there's that interesting bit about how if we actually described how to turn that 150 root gram bark bits into usable ibogaine for use in treating someone, wouldn't we be breaking major US anti-drug/commonsense laws?
Just a passing thought.
----- Original Message ----
From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 3:55:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...
A couple of million people may have heard about ibogaine but as the recent mis-spelling would indicate very few people have an accurate understanding of iboga or its extracts. I dont know if it is selective attention to the facts; but how is it that some one would go as far as to procure iboga and still not know how to administer it; let alone what dosage to use. Thats what I find scary; not that people have not heard about iboga but that there seems to be the broken telephone wire game going on regarding the facts and alot of ad-libbing. 
 
----- Original Message ----
From: eric priest <ericprst at yahoo.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 February, 2008 7:15:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The problem is...

Vector!

Please. Your experience is anything but humble. Everything you write is an attempt to show how clever you are. Why even the handle .:vector:. is so very cute and clever. Hhmm.... makes me think I should get a clever handle.

You have positioned yourself as the grand historian of the list and frequently remind us of how "this was gone over extensively way back in '02" and blather on about your 'peeps.' Problem is you are often wrong in addition to being annoying. 
I will say it's been fun watching you grow up. Are you still in your teens? Discovered the art of self-pleasure yet? Your first time to vote in a presidential election, no?

Ibogaine has been covered in the NY Times, Village Voice, Miami Herald, Boston Globe, Philadelphia Enquirer, LA Times, LA Weekly, The Guardian, The Georgia Straight, Newsweek, AP, US News & World Reports, Omni, JAMA, Fox News, KRON, KCBS, and of course CSI (20 million people right there) as well as in books. Hardly a suppressed secret consigned to harm reduction meetings or this list. I've heard that the internet has a large audience. Dana would be right in his assessment of millions knowing about ibogaine. Perhaps broadening your social horizons to include people who read newspapers or watch tv may enrich your humble experience. 

So when are you going to take the plunge and take ibogaine? Or is being the know-it-all but never done it expert more your bag? The eunuch in the harem seems fitting metaphor. 

Now do a bong load and think of something witty to write.



Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

Dana it's not that I don't want to believe you, I really do but could
you please enlighten us where your figure of a couple of million people
came from besides your imagination?

In my own humble experience I haven't yet anybody who knows what
ibogaine is that didn't find out about it from either this list, online
somewhere or at some harm reduction conference where ibogaine has made
much progress in the last 5 years but at best you're still only talking
about a very small number of people. 

Marko's figure may be conservative but it's realistic, wishful thinking
could make it double that but no more.

President Kroupa sounds good to me, I'll just go ahead and pencil his
name in on this year's ballot Marko ;)

.:vector:.

--- Dana Beal wrote:

> A lot more than 10,000. A couple of million at least. And more after 
> 
> this weekend's forum. Maybe said forum will bring ibogaine to the 
> attention of Obama.
> 
> Dana/cnw
> 
> On Feb 14, 2008, at 1:12 PM, marko wrote:
> 
> > here:
> >
> > As I understand, there are about 250 M people living in the US of
> A,
> > and less than 10.000 have ever heard of Ibogaine. The majority is
> on
> > this list.
> >
> > So, the only logical thing is to spread the word! Howard, Patrick, 
> 
> > Dana,
> > Ken, and others, are doing their best to present hard facts to the
> > scientific community (whatever this is) - and elsewhere. But, this
> is
> > not enough.
> >
> > I suggest this:
> >
> > EACH of you citizens of the "Free World" can do a LOT simply by
> > constantly writing to different US-based addiction-related forums.
> > Telling them YOUR stories. Telling them the truth!
> >
> > That's all.. Simple and effective.
> >
> > If you do this, if you keep doing this, MindVox will soon need new 
> 
> > mail
> > servers, and not only a handful of people but masses will demand an
> > effective treatment for addiction (= Ibogaine)! And, this will be
> > something which people in charge won't overhear...
> >
> > Please, don't be destructive with second thoughts about this --> be
> > constructive and DO IT! (Thank you for these words, Jerry R.!) Do 
> > it for
> > whatever reason, just D0 iT !!!
> >
> > Who knows, maybe Ibogaine will be the crucial factor in next (not 
> > these)
> > US elections?
> >
> > PATRICK K. KROUPA FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Marko
> >
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