[Ibogaine] Barcelona IbogainesessionsetforInternationalHarmReduction Conference

Steve Coss coss at blodgettsupply.com
Tue Feb 12 17:43:54 EST 2008

But you forget that we were bad little boys and girls and so we have to be punished by going through withdrawal. You don't expect to get off that easy do you!!!!




From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of Don Collier
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:32 AM
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Barcelona IbogainesessionsetforInternationalHarmReduction Conference


When a cancer patient needs a new medicine, many shortcuts are taken to get the relief to the patient. To require complete scientific proof for obvious benefit seems to ignore

common sense, and mercy to the sufferer. This is true medicine. One should not use scientific principles to the effect of losing the game for some.


"Love converts hearts, and gives peace."

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Dana Beal <mailto:dana at phantom.com>  

	To: The Ibogaine List <mailto:ibogaine at mindvox.com>  

	Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 8:16 AM

	Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Barcelona Ibogaine sessionsetforInternationalHarmReduction Conference


	Yeah, but the point is that none of the other presentations speak to efficacy, or present on GDNF. The information that would contradict Wodak has been replace by his general observations on clinical trials, which are not specific to ibogaine, and that is disingenuous. 




	On Feb 12, 2008, at 6:45 AM, Nick Sandberg wrote:


	Hi again Dana,

	Checking out a bit more, I see that there are 4 speakers and only one is skeptic. I've written to Alex and cc'ed to Gerry, the UK head of IHRA, saying I find it reprehensible that he compares ibogaine to thalidomide, but I would consider it fair to have one skeptic in discussions also. My mail copied below.



	Dear Alex,

	I wanted to get in touch with you as I was quite concerned by the précis of your proposed talk at the upcoming Barcelona Harm Reduction Conference, which I've copied below....

	Since the tragic experience of thalidomide some decades ago, medicine has been based firmly on scientific evidence. All interventions are assumed to be ineffective, unsafe and cost-ineffective until proven otherwise. Harm reduction is also based firmly on scientific evidence while conventional drug policy relying heavily on supply control has a weak committment to evidence. Theoretical justifications for interventions are of interest but they are no substitute for rigorous scientific evidence of effectiveness, safety and cost-effectiveness. For example, oral naltrexone has been strongly advocated by critics of harm reduction as a treatment for heroin dependence on the basis of attractive theory. However, empirical studies showed that clearly naltrexone is ineffective, unsafe and cost-ineffective as a treatment for heroin dependence. Published evidence for Ibogaine as a treatment for heroin dependence is unimpressive. Persistent and sincere advocacy for ibogaine is no substitute for rigorous evidence. 'Evidence' means several rigorous scientific trials published in reputable peer-reviewed scientific journals demonstrating major benefits consistently and in the absence of unacceptable side effects. Evidence of effectiveness preferably (but not necessarily) requires randomised controlled trials where this is possible. 'Evidence' is not a strong theoretical rationale. Advocates for Ibogaine and harm reduction clinicians and scientists will be brought closer together when all agree that all prevention and treatment interventions have to be based on rigorous scientific evidence of effectiveness, safety and cost-effectiveness.

	It seemed to me completely misrepresentative of the drug and I felt strongly to get in touch with you and try and see where you were actually coming from. I have been involved with ibogaine in the UK for the past 10 years, running the website www.ibogaine.co.uk <http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/> . I mention here that I do not sell ibogaine, I do not treat people, and I have no financial stake in the drug whatsoever. I set up and maintained the site for nearly a decade because I was concerned about the plight of addicts and saw first-hand just how incredible this treatment was. I am currently the manager of a leading new-age community in Dorset, England and I am trained and qualified as a Humaniversity Therapist, a humanistic psychology school that run a Therapeutic Community, working directly with addiction, based in Holland.

	Now, to be honest, I find the opening sentence of this précis to be utterly manipulative. I find it hard to believe that someone who had any concern for truth or for the treatment of addiction could make such a misleading comparison. If you have a strong argument it will stand up without resorting to such manipulative techniques. As to the argument itself, I find it only fair that, whilst making the statements you do, you also accurately articulate the means by which new drugs are assessed and come to the market. I say this because when this is done the truth of the situation becomes a great deal more clear. For sure, be sceptical. I've no problem with it, but please at least do some basic research and represent the points fairly.

	As point of fact, there have been proper scientific studies of ibogaine. They have given a preliminary demonstration of the drug's safety and efficacy. There certainly need to be more studies, but the issues that have blocked them taking place thus far are not related to the drug's effectiveness. The studies that have been done have taken place without the financial backing of the Pharm business. They have been financed by private money. Ibogaine has been so disregarded by the State and by the Pharm houses that it is, in my opinion, nothing short of miraculous that the work that has been carried out has happened at all. It has happened for the sole reason that the drug's effects are so positive and so stunning that people just get involved. In a political climate where big business effectively completely controls the development of new medications, that so much work has been done with ibogaine should be applauded, not subjected to manipulative sermonizing. 

	Ibogaine is not going to go away. If it was it would have done so years ago. The reason for this is that it only takes one treatment for people to actually see for themselves just how remarkable this drug is. People get on board. They often just drop what they're doing and get on board. Dr Ken Alper, an associate professor of psychiatry at the NY School of Medicine, recently published an academic survey of clinical and non-clinical ibogaine treatments, covering many thousands of sessions. In the background there are more and more moves to bring psychoactives to the market. Clinical trials are currently going on with MDMA, LSD and Psilocybin. MAPS are financing more studies with ibogaine, again work which hasn't been sanctioned by big business. Ibogaine will get legal eventually. I have personally no doubt about this. 

	I urge you to re-think your talk. For sure present the issues, but please do it fairly. It's awful to see people who are in theory trying to do good for addicts stoop to such manipulation, and absurd to think any good will come of it.

	Kind regards

	Nick Sandberg

	Thorngrove House, etc


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