[Ibogaine] Barcelona Ibogaine session set for InternationalHarmReduction Conference

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Mon Feb 11 12:39:08 EST 2008


Well, I just object to the lecturing approach these guys come up with,
especially when it’s delivered with no appreciation the situation that faces
new medications the pharm business won’t back. Any twat can rubbish any
medication, it’s child’s play. His approach I bloody object to. I’ll write
to him later and see if he gets back in touch.

 

Nick

 

 

 

  _____  

From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On
Behalf Of Dana Beal
Sent: 11 February 2008 17:20
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Barcelona Ibogaine session set for
InternationalHarmReduction Conference

 

awodak at stvincents.com.au   He IS an M.D., who is considered an authority in
the harm reduction field, mostly on the grounds that he and a few other
people set up IHRA back in the '80's in response to AIDS, which he never
hesitates to compare to the Black Plague. 

 

Remember the story of the hostile response Nico Adriaans and Josine got when
they first took the word of ibogaine to the international harm reduction
conference and associated users' groups?

 

I think these are the same people. 

 

Can't bear to admit they made a mistake.

 

Dana/cnw

 

 

On Feb 11, 2008, at 11:21 AM, Nick Sandberg wrote:





Hi Dana,

 

God, if I have to read another one of these moralizing sermons written by
non-scientists about the value of empiricism I’m going to fucking scream. Do
you have an email address for this moron? 

 

Nick

 

  _____  

From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On
Behalf Of Dana Beal
Sent: 10 February 2008 00:18
To: The Ibogaine List
Cc: Allan Clear; encod; jaime at canamo.net; lcolonna at harmredux.org; Jon Stuen;
Jason Farrell
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Barcelona Ibogaine session set for InternationalHarm
Reduction Conference

 

This actually NOT a followup to the Ibogaine Forum next weekend, because the
information on Ibogaine efficacy that me and Dr. Ken will be presenting has
been GUTTED from the panel, and REPLACED by an Ibogaine Opponent who's PROUD
that he is completely unfamiliar with ibogaine, because he KNOWS  it must be
a fraud. Here's what he's saying: 

 

Since the tragic experience of thalidomide some decades ago, medicine has
been based firmly on scientific evidence. All interventions are assumed to
be ineffective, unsafe and cost-ineffective until proven otherwise. Harm
reduction is also based firmly on scientific evidence while conventional
drug policy relying heavily on supply control has a weak committment to
evidence. Theoretical justifications for interventions are of interest but
they are no substitute for rigorous scientific evidence of effectiveness,
safety and cost-effectiveness. For example, oral naltrexone has been
strongly advocated by critics of harm reduction as a treatment for heroin
dependence on the basis of attractive theory. However, empirical studies
showed that clearly naltrexone is ineffective, unsafe and cost-ineffective
as a treatment for heroin dependence. Published evidence for Ibogaine as a
treatment for heroin dependence is unimpressive. Persistent and sincere
advocacy for ibogaine is no substitute for rigorous evidence. 'Evidence'
means several rigorous scientific trials published in reputable
peer-reviewed scientific journals demonstrating major benefits consistently
and in the absence of unacceptable side effects. Evidence of effectiveness
preferably (but not necessarily) requires randomised controlled trials where
this is possible. 'Evidence' is not a strong theoretical rationale.
Advocates for Ibogaine and harm reduction clinicians and scientists will be
brought closer together when all agree that all prevention and treatment
interventions have to be based on rigorous scientific evidence of
effectiveness, safety and cost-effectiveness.

 

The are no randomized trials for medications used to treat acute opiate
withdrawal because of a) the difficulty of eliciting a placebo effect in
some one who's kicking dope, b) the extreme unlikelihood that folks wouldn't
notice they did or did not take a psychedelic drug, and c) the ethical
impossibility of not unblinding the trial once the clinician sees the robust
ibogaine effect against frequently fatal addiction to heroin and others
drugs of abuse.

 

Remember, in FACING THE HABIT, 3 out 4 of the characters are dead of heroin
overdose by the end of the film.

There are published studies, but as I suspected, when I met Wodak in New
Orleans, he had never read them. One of the first things I saw was email
from him saying that there were "more important things to discuss." It is
also somewhat disingenuous to demand results from clinical trials after
years of lobbying against clinical trials, on the grounds that there's not
enough evidence to justify doing a clinical trial to begin with. The action
by IHRA in forcing an opponent onto the panel shows that their trashing of
ibogaine with the Iranians after Dimitri Mougainis introduced it to them in
Warsaw represents a consistent policy that is probably responsible for ibo
being dropped by the Australian media after being in vogue a few years back.

 

After all, they went to the experts, who said that it didn't work--"no
evidence."  Alex Wodak is the former head of the International Harm
Reduction Association.

 

The comparison to thalidomide is especially offensive because Ibogaine was
in medical use as lamborine for 40 years before it was banned as a
psychedelic, and any really serious but unsuspected effects comparable to
babies being born with seal flippers instead of arms would have emerged
during that time. And the comparison to UROD (naltrexone) cannot be
sustained on the grounds that a kappa opioid agonist is comparable to an mu
opioid blocker, when acute alpha3beta4 nicotinic antagonist (like Welbutrin)
and serotonergic effects may actually be more responsible for addiction
interruption, while there is no indication whatsoever that UROD switches on
a neurotropin (GDNF) that regrows dopamine neurons and self-replicates, so
that you don't have to keep taking ibogine to get the longer-term "curative"
effects. 

 

I was booted from the panel because Stijn, the head of INPUD, said I was
interfering in his panel scheduling by asking that Wodak respond
specifically to the ibogaine information instead of hiding behind
generalities, and requesting some one who could present on safety issues.
Unbeknownst to me, he was overruled on the second point anyway because IHRA
had no other place to put Perez Alonso after accepting his abstract--which
gives you some idea of who is actually in charge, even though Stijn says he
did all on his ownsome it in a fit of pique. 

 

It was OUR panel before that, preferred by a majority of users'
organizations as one of two "users' choice" sessions. I left New Orleans
believing that I was still on it and that things with Wodak could be worked
out with the eventual outcome of even having clinical trials in Australia. 

 

Instead participants WILL NOT GET information that contradicts Wodak.
Instead I am excluded to an exhibition hall where I can stand next to a
poster of my slides, clearly implying that my information doesn't cut it,
that it hasn't made the grade, that it has no basis in science. That's
interesting, inasmuch as it is somewhat duplicative of the presentation Dr.
Ken is giving next Saturday morning in Washington, D.C.

 

Meanwhile, I am informed that Stijn wants INPUD (International Network of
People who Use Drugs) to represent the hard drugs users, and ENCOD, the
group putting on the Vienna UN protest March 7 - 9 to stick to representing
cannabis users. Which is consistent  with the mandate of the British Govt
Department for International Development to fight AIDS among IDUs, leaving
80 % of users who just use cannabis or psychedelics outside of any legal or
administrative protections they manage to wrangle for their
clients/patients. 

 

One of the issues of ENCOD vs INPUD is the right to use without being
automatically considered a patient, with the restrictions that implies for
civil rights. 

 

Stijn may say that he's only trying to arrange a dialog between proponents
and opponents, but Wodak is already somewhat notorious in harm reduction
circles for opposing provision of narcan to addict activists for overdose
prevention, on the grounds that there's "no evidence of efficacy," even
though the stuff is routine medication for EMS techs who show up (usually
too late) at the scene of the overdose. Interesting, Wodak is trying to get
a clinical trial going for dex-amphetamine maintenance for meth-heads, while
Stijn has managed to get himself a prescription for speed of some kind. So I
can't help but feel they're still trying to keep ibogaine from being studied
as an alternative to heroin and amphetamine maintenance (how about low-dose
ibogaine vs. speed?). And, based on the ambivalent reaction I got at the
INPUD meeting in New Orleans to my challenge to join with the Worldwide
Marijuana March in a united front, that this is a deliberate action to
alienate the pot movement by refusing us a seat at the table.

 

Dana/cnw

 

 

On Feb 5, 2008, at 11:45 PM, Howard Lotsof wrote:






The agenda for the Ibogaine session for International Harm Reduction
Conference in Barcelona has just been set.

 

The session will take place Monday, May 12, 2008, at 6:00 PM (18:00) during
one of the special Evening sessions or six o'clock shows.

 

Host: Alan Clear

“Users Choice: Ibogaine”

Howard Lotsof, 559 Ibogaine Treatment For Substance Dependence: Historical
and Future Perspectives.

Wodak Alex, 1192 The lack of evidence for Ibogaine as a treatment for heroin
dependence

Perez Alonso, 1351 The Safety and Screening of Ibogaine in a Mexico Clinical
Setting

Dimitri Mugianis, 397 Underground Ibogaine Treatment and Drug User Activism

 

6 O’Clock Shows

To end the day on Monday 12th May and Tuesday 13th May, there will also be
some early evening sessions called the ‘6 O’Clock Shows’. These sessions are
great opportunities for open debate and discussion on contentious or lively
topics. They normally consist of four 15-minute presentations followed by
around 30 minutes for discussion and questions, and are available in English
only.

 

Information on the evening session can be found at
http://www.ihra.net/Barcelona/ProgrammeAbstracts

 

 

The program agenda is attached.  Easiest way to find the ibogaine session is
to search for the term, "ibogaine."

 

 

<HR2008_Programme.pdf>

 

 

This session will be an international follow-up for the 5th Annual Ibogaine
Forum, Washington DC 2008.

 

 


On Feb 5, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Dana Beal (dana at phantom.com) wrote:           






This schedule is subject to last-minute changes. Please get all yr  

people to come.

 

5th annual ibogaine Forum, Washington DC 2008






The location: 1020 U St.

 

Dates: February 16 to 18 (President's Day).

 

11 am to 6 PM Daily.

 

Dana/cnw

dana at phantom.com

     1-212-677-7180 cures-not-wars.org

 

This schedule is subject to last-minute changes. There is community housing,
but we can also arrange hotel accomodations. But we need to know right away,
before everything is booked. 

 

DAY 1--Saturday

 

Keynote w. Aton Edwards

 

Medical Panels

 

Dr. Ken Alper     Survey of worldwide use

Dana Beal      Mechanisms of Action

 

Clare Wilkins           Ibogaine Asssociation Safety Procedures

Dr. Anwar Jeewa     Ibogaine in a Conventional Treatment Setting

 

Howard Lotsof       Ibogaine in treatment of hepatitis C

MIchael Cardin      Cornell ibo/hep C study

 

Ibogaine and Black Community's Quest for Alternative Treatments

 

Dhoruba bin Wahad        Former Black Panther

Rommel Washington       Social Worker, Accupuncturist

Alan Frimpong                 Grass Roots Malcolm X Movement

 

 

DAY 2--Sunday

 

 

Traditional Use in Africa

 

Dr. Anthony Andoh Northscale Institute

Dimitri Mougainis   (newly initiated in the Bwiti religion)

Charles Rossouw (on S. African use as traditional medicine)

 

Comparative Use w. Other Plant Sacraments

 

Patrick Kroupa  Ibogaine Plus Other Sacraments

Makhi Erdely     on Peyote and  Ayahuasca in treatment of addiction

Philip Fiuty (former head of New Mexico Bureau of Infectious Diseases)

Marc Cocoran    on Kratom, burprenorphin and low dose ibogaine

 

 

DAY 3--Monday

 

Legislative and Regulatory Considerations

 

Doug Greene         original scheduling of ibogaine

Bill Piper                  legislative affairs, Drug Policy Alliance

Howard Lotsof        History of Ibogaine Development

 

The scene w. Venezuela and S. America

 

Dhoruba bin Wahad    Former Black Panther

Dra. Zulema Cendon   Venezuelan Psychiatrists

Dra. Rosalía Dávalos                    in the Drug Treament Field

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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