[Ibogaine] efficacy

knowone knowwhere kn0m0n3 at yahoo.co.uk
Tue Dec 23 14:23:25 EST 2008


Dave,
 
I have been reading some articles about morphine tolerance with the blockade of glutamate actions by noncompetitive and competitive NMDA (N-methyl-D-aspartate) antagonists.  
  I saw ibo  come up in some Trujillo and Akil articles.  You are right that pain management can be tricky.
 
 be well,
 Jason
 

--- On Mon, 8/12/08, Dave Hunter <gammalyte at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dave Hunter <gammalyte at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] efficacy of multiple ibogaine treatments and clinical vs. non clinical
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 8 December, 2008, 9:01 PM


I can say without a doubt that after my first Ibogaine  treatment 10 years ago I never returned to crime and only injected once after my first treatment (after 60 days or so) and immediately stopped and stayed "completely abstinent" for 5 years after that.

I have chronic pain issues and have had to take oxy, dilaudid and vicodin on and off over the last five years, and I never got totally out of control, meaning I never escalated my prescribed amount. If anything I  took less than the daily prescribed amount. I have been able to use Ibo to drastically reduce pain management opiate intake and ultimately curtail intake altogether. 

Iboga Micro dosing and boosters help tremendously.

It is my experience and observation that ibogaine brings about longer periods of abstinence and shorter, less intense periods of non-abstinence.

Having chronic pain forces one to walk a fine line when it comes to taking opiates, which takes some finesse and serious self-awareness. I am currently not taking any pain meds because I don't like all the side effects, except the euphoria, of course :^) - hey, gotta be honest!

Instead I am working with physical therapy, getting exercise and changing habits that bring about pain flare-ups. I still have pain on a daily basis, which sucks but the more I am aware of being in my body the better I am able to deal with the pain. I have osteo-arthritis in L-4,5,6, T11,12,13 and thinning discs at C-5&6 - A result of a major back injury 20 years ago which basically was the beginning of my head first dive into opiate gluttony.

I realize I may have to go back to pain management at some point, but am making my best effort at exploring the alternatives first. I have had some success using Kratom (active ingerdient mitragynine) and Corydalis Yan Hu So, but Kratom is also habit forming (altho much less so than opiates), pretty euphoric and I find it more constipating than opiates. The corydalis in pure form is quite sedating so I can only take it at night, and more effective when used in combo with other traditional chinese herbs.

I do like my euphorics, but my head space these days is about freedom from altering my brain chemistry, it feels better to be able to wake up clear headed and not "have to have" something to get me right - except for my Morning Yerba Mate, which is another story.

I know there are a lot of folks on this list with chronic pain that do pain management in varying forms, and we all can only do the best we can with our hard-won wisdom and the information we have access to.

Peace,
_.dh


On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Mason Shipley <maseshipley at gmail.com> wrote:


Hello Tink, good to see you back and alive. I've a question for you about clinical vs non-clinical seeing how you've experienced both of them. 

After your clinical ibogaine detox, how long did you manage to stay clean vs. the do it yourself experiences? If I remember it right you worked up to a few months clean at some point before falling back down the rabbit hole. 

My secondary question would be, in all of these experiences, did you find that you stayed cleaner longer towards the beginning when ibogaine may have had a more profound impact on your life, vs your 4th or 5th ibogaine, where you go back to using in a few weeks? Only based on reading the experiences in this list, the pattern I've seen is that more often someone is doing ibogaine to detox, the shorter the intervals they seem to stay clean after each subsequent attempt.

The only two exceptions to this that I can recall from this list are Patrick who said he made it as far as the nearest airport in San Juan after his first ibogaine before relapsing and has now maintained for something like 8 years after his 2nd clinical detox. Correct me if I'm wrong but the last time Patrick wrote about himself personally to the list, he'd done the two clinical detoxes and then done ibogaine another 30 or 35 times since then under his own conditions for boosters or spiritual reasons but not for detox. His case is probably unique since he worked for Dr. Mash at the department of neurology and ibogaine project, for nearly 10 years, where he was regularly drug tested and can document his clean time instead of relying only on hear say. 

The second exception is Matt who I believe followed the same pattern I mention above, with each subsequent dosing of ibogaine resulting in shorter spaces of clean time, until his last triumph where he's stayed clean for more then half a year.

Another example of this would be Preston who I'm curious to hear from as well, who I believe has had only non clinical experiences. In your experience Preston did you seem to get more out of the first and second time you did ibogaine, vs. the 4th, 5th, 6th, however many times you have done it now?

I'm sure that everyone is unique and has their own reasons and coping systems, but the overall pattern looks to be that the earlier ibogaine treatments have more profound and lasting impact. Is this a accurate observation on my part?

The other thing I have noticed with people who appear to have been at the rock bottom of their addictions, by which I mean they fell a long way, were homeless or very far down and then managed to stay clean, is that in one way or another, they have obtained their own supplies of ibogaine so they can continue to engage in booster therapy for themselves as needed. They have access to ibogaine and can catch themselves if they're about to fall, instead of having to check into a clinic again or arrange another treatment with a underground provider. They key difference appears to be having access to one's own ibogaine, as needed and perhaps the maturity and life's experience to use it wisely and known yourself enough to know when you are about to rationalize another relapse and catch yourself. This appears to require a tremendous amount of will power and self knowledge, in whatever way the individual gained this.

Best wishes to you

 
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