[Ibogaine] ruminations on entheogens, addiction, and NA

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Sep 30 05:20:33 EDT 2007

most opiates are from the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum) 

----- Original Message ----
From: xristine <xristine at comcast.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, 30 September, 2007 8:22:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ruminations on entheogens, addiction, and NA

I am new to the list and the thread as well but....isn't opium equally plant 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <elfstone at sati.us>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ruminations on entheogens, addiction, and NA

> Encounters with the sacred plants are potentially mind-expanding
> experiences, versus the mind-contracting experiences, which narcotics
> often can result in (though Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who wrote Kubla Khan
> after an opium-induced visionary experience, and many others, may disagree
> with that statement).  From the indigenous perspective, which places human
> beings in a world of fellow subjects, versus the contemporary, alienated
> egoic perspective of being in a world of objects, the sacred plants have a
> spirit with something to say and lessons to teach.  From this more
> enlightened perspective of an inter-subjective world, the plants have a
> spirit which one can establish a living relationship with.  The years of
> apprenticeship that an ayahuascero goes through, or the Mazatecan
> curandera/curandero goes through with the sacred mushrooms, or the Bwiti
> initiate goes through, is a necessary training that introduces the shaman
> to the territory and the means to navigate it.  For a few, the sympathetic
> resonance with certain plant spirits leads them to greater facility in
> navigating these hyper-dimensional domains and they become the elder
> shamans and keepers of the tradition.  After over 30 years of working
> intensively with the sacred plants of the Americas, I am of the mind that
> not only has humanity had a long relationship (over at least tens of
> thousands of years) with these sacred plants but that the suppression of
> their usage is born of fear of anything which may take people out of the
> blind submission to the collective conditioning that power possessing
> people use to subdue others and maintain their status in the world.  The
> self-doubt that people may experience, in their attempts to trust
> themselves to the insights that relating with these living presences of
> our natural world have to offer, is a really a symptom of the disease of
> oppression that we labor under.  Do not be afraid of the plant spirits and
> what they have to offer.  Ibogaine is just another one of these powerful
> plant spirits and, like all the rest, has been declared illegal not
> because people are afraid of drugs; as Brother David Stendl-Rast has said,
> we have drug stores on every corner, people are not afraid of drugs,
> they're afraid of "mind expansion."  Though I am also quick to add that
> the concept of "drug" is just another tactic of repression designed to
> dismiss anything gathered from this source of knowledge and insight.  I do
> not see the sacred plants as "drugs," which is really an overly broad,
> clumsy concept that is used to classify something that cannot be easily
> controlled by labelling it as dangerous and to be avoided.  To my mind, it
> is just another fear tactic being employed to supress and repress a power
> that lies far beyond what the egoic, judgment-ridden oppressor mind-set
> can grasp.  Bottom line: trust the immediacy of your own experience in
> this domain.
> Elfstone
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