[Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Sep 23 14:04:06 EDT 2007


Spot on Matt. Well that's how I see it any way. You mentioned some thing very important though and that is the secrecy. 


----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew Shriver <Matt at ITSupport.net>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, 23 September, 2007 6:35:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery


This is an interesting question: what is an addict?  My opinions anonymous is that it has to do with the power of choice.  A non addict can become habituated to a drug, and this happens when people are put on long term opiates by doctors, and then when the non-addict comes off of the drug, they are not driven by obsession and compulsion to return to it.  A non-addict heavy drinker who faces serious consequences, DWI for instance, can stop or moderate their use.  An addict on the other hand is driven by an obsession and compulsion that is stronger than their own will power.  They have in effect lost the ability to choose not to use, they must use, their addiction drives them to it.  And by use I also include activities like compulsive eating, sex, gambling, etc
  This is why the consequences are usually so harsh for these people.  They start to suffer your regular consquences for this type of behavior (being poor, feeling low self-esteem because of the
 “secret life”, unreliable etc
) but these consequences are never going to be enough to overpower the obsession and compulsion of the addiction and so they continue to face more and more severe consequences as their life further deteriorates.  But by this model, I could see where a person with a lot of money or a very reliable source of cheap drugs could avoid the low bottoms that many addicts face.  I think in the US anyway, enough money or power will exempt you from being subject to the rule of law and so even the legal consequences can be avoided by the very privileged addict.
 
Matt
 



From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of simon loxton
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:17 AM
To: The Ibogaine List
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
 
 
This is debatable. Even though you can maintain the semblance of a "normal" life, addiction is soul destroying and will still take precedence over everything else if it comes down to it. You just need to broaden your view of addiction. It is not some thing that can be placed in a box or pigeon holed and you can’t say there is one model. Ten percent of doctors are addicts. So then just a question where does a habit become an addiction? Is it when the money runs out and it takes precedence over everything else or is it still just a matter of choice? The people that lack resources or have to turn to crime to support their habits are the ones that attract the most attention which does not mean to say that it does not affect a percentage of people from all walks of life no matter what their background, race or social standing. Addiction does not discriminate, does not limit its self to drugs either and it is progressive. Money just makes addiction a little
 more manageable. Its all just a matter of time, I lasted over 15 years before I reached "a rock bottom" I have seen people lose everything in a couple of months. Some people don't lose any thing material at all but the behaviour pattern is still there and it is the behaviour that affects the choices you make that is what addiction it is all about, in my opinion as an addict or x addict.

 
----- Original Message ----
From: Marc Emery <Marc420Emery at shaw.ca>
To: The Ibogaine List < ibogaine at mindvox.com >
Sent: Sunday, 23 September, 2007 11:21:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery

If you can lead a normal life, you are not addicted. Habituated perhaps, but its not just a matter of semantics.. Addiction has in its meaning self-destructiveness. If you can lead a "normal" life, then its clearly not self-destructive. Addiction is associated with a lifestyle of mania that is self-destructive. 
 
Marc Emery 
 


----- Original Message -----
From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Sunday, September 23, 2007 2:15 am
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
To: The Ibogaine List < ibogaine at mindvox.com >

> This maybe true, but being an addict or ex addict I have had 
> plenty of friends who came from very good homes. Then there are 
> the addicts that are very motivated and good in business you 
> just don't hear about the last two because they manage to keep 
> things covered up quite well and have the finances to keep them 
> out of trouble and out of the public eye. As an example, the guy 
> who I developed a habit with was a Dutch school teacher, he 
> still had a good relationship with his family and had a "normal" 
> life other than the fact that he was addicted to heroin. 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Marc Emery <Marc420Emery at shaw.ca>
> To: The Ibogaine List < ibogaine at mindvox.com >
> Sent: Sunday, 23 September, 2007 1:35:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
> 
> Of the 65 people I treated, and this was only after they had 
> exhausted every other form of detox, 61 did not have their 
> biological father in their life for all or part of their 
> childhood/adolescence. After puberty each one of them acted out, 
> hung out with the wrong crowd, used drugs to deal with anger or 
> alienation. 
> 
> 
> I ask addicts every day about their past and virtually without 
> exception every substance abuser has a missing biological Dad 
> for some degree of time in pre-adulthood. I never found an 
> addict yet who had two loving parents who were always home and 
> affirming.
> 
> So finding the will to maintain your mind control is rooted in 
> dealing with the Daddy issues. If you make peace with them, then 
> a greater degree of control develops over your personal autonomy.
> 
> 
> Marc Emery
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Schwarzkopf <jmcreature at telus.net>
> Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:11 am
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
> To: The Ibogaine List < ibogaine at mindvox.com >
> 
> > Marc,
> > 
> > You never found it necessary to re-dose someone in the first 
> > week  after the first dose??
> > What about this slide from Howard Lotsof's powerpoint presentation?
> > 
> http://www.ibogaine.org/ibogaine_forms_dose_regimen.ppt#302,22,Slide 22 ??
> > 
> > I thought those were your numbers?? Looks like this man got 4 
> > doses in the first week of treatment.
> > 
> > "Ultimately, every opiate addict knows withdrawl is something 
> > they can survive, but they are lacking insight and will to 
> > endure this discomfort." 
> > You sound pretty unkind. 
> > 
> > 
> > Catherine
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Marc Emery 
> >   To: The Ibogaine List 
> >   Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 11:14 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , 
> Marc Emery
> > 
> > 
> >   I treated 14 people for methadone, including my 
> own son. 
> > I treated individuals taking 300 mg a day, 140-mg a day, and 
> > amounts ranging from 30 mg to 100 mg. The American patients 
> were 
> > always taking huge amounts their doctor had prescribed them.
> > 
> > 
> >   I never found it necessary to re-dose anyone in 
> the first 
> > week after the first dose. Addicts do feel familiar aches 
> after 
> > ibogaine, but full blown withdrawl, I have never seen it. 
> > Usually it is three to four weeks after the first and only 
> > treatment that the patient called me up and said in vague ways 
> > that a non-addict finds difficult to understand that "I think 
> I 
> > want to go back on methadone again..." and I would ask why, 
> and 
> > they usually could not say, as though the only answer to their 
> > malaise was a return to methadone. Most addicts were in very 
> > poor health (as John was) and aren't at all exercising and 
> > sweating the methadone out of their body. Once you have 
> ibogaine 
> > you have to keep busy and be very physical, or else you will 
> > focus on discomfort and absence (of the familiar). Ultimately, 
> > every opiate addict knows withdrawl is something they can 
> > survive, but they are lacking insight and will to endure this 
> > discomfort. 
> > 
> > 
> >   Marc Emery
> > 
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: John Schwarzkopf <jmcreature at telus.net>
> >   Date: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:59 pm
> >   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , 
> Marc Emery
> >   To: The Ibogaine List < ibogaine at mindvox.com >
> > 
> >   > Hi Marc,
> >   > 
> >   > John went to your store and talked to you. Asked 
> you if 
> > you 
> >   > could recommend someone that knew what they were 
> doing, 
> > had 
> >   > experience and you put us in touch with Linette.
> >   > You accompanied her is some occasions before the 
> > treatment and 
> >   > she gave you accounts of how the treatment was 
> going 
> > hourly. I 
> >   > do feel that you are somewhat responsible for 
> her 
> >   > shortcomings because you recommended her and 
> because 
> > once she 
> >   > left and decided that John didn't have 
> withdrawals even 
> > though 
> >   > she wasn't even here , as her mentor, you didn't 
> > contact her to 
> >   > ask 
> >   > "what are you doing??"   and because I 
> still 
> > think 
> >   > that you are not so aware of the method of 
> treatment 
> > for 
> >   > methadone users and wouldn't have been able to 
> give her 
> > proper advice.
> >   > 
> >   > I am glad that you agree that she did a less 
> than 
> > satisfactory job.
> >   > 
> >   > About the schedule.. You know, I read your post 
> as I 
> > was gonna 
> >   > leave to go have dinner at the restaurant, and 
> the 
> > whole time I 
> >   > was there I kept wondering : if the man being 
> treated starts
> >   > to have withdrawals 3 days after treatment then 
> what? 
> > does he do 
> >   > dope ? or methadone? or just suffer ? until day 7..
> >   > Why not do the booster when the withdrawals 
> start? 
> > Also, I think 
> >   > that the boosters John took were a lot less than 
> 14mg/kg.>   > and i do think John took the dose 24 hr 
> after his last 
> > methadone 
> >   > .. I can't be sure but if he did it was at his 
> own 
> > request and 
> >   > he probably should have waited 48 hours.
> >   > 
> >   > Eric Taub had agreed to talk to Linette or you 
> and 
> > explain how 
> >   > to use boosters  but both of you were 
> acting like 
> > it was 
> >   > bad to take assistance from another provider 
> because it means
> >   > they are more knowledgeable than you are!!
> >   > 
> >   > I wrote you an e-mail after John was ok and said 
> that 
> > he took 
> >   > boosters as recommended by "someone in the US " 
> and you 
> > e-mailed 
> >   > be back and asked 
> >   > Did you give him a booster dose of ibogaine or a 
> small 
> > dose of 
> >   > methadone?
> >   > I don't think you knew how to treat someone for 
> > methadone. I 
> >   > have doubts you know now. I have no idea who is 
> > involved with 
> >   > the Iboga Therapy House and no idea of what they know.
> >   > If you knew about booster doses and the 
> difficulties 
> > specific to 
> >   > methadone treatment and didn't tell Linette.. 
> then that 
> > means 
> >   > you would have done it intentionally.. meant for 
> John 
> > to fail.. 
> >   > I don't think 
> >   > that's the case and I really don't see why you 
> would have?
> >   > 
> >   > Catherine
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   >   From: Marc Emery 
> >   >   To: The Ibogaine List 
> >   >   Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 
> 7:08 PM
> >   >   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on 
> > Consciousness , Marc Emery
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   >   Some points about this story,
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   >   I never got payment from anybody for 
> > anything to do with 
> >   > ibogaine.
> >   > 
> >   >   This was when Linette, one of my 
> proteges, 
> > was on her own 
> >   > and I was giving advice. When it was under my 
> auspices, 
> > there 
> >   > was no charge for any service to any patient.
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   >   Linette should have stayed longer. I 
> > offered all my time 
> >   > to her free, of course, but I can't see where I 
> did 
> > anything 
> >   > odd. It wasn't under my care. Linette came out 
> to the 
> > man's 
> >   > home, which I rarely did in my treatments, and 
> made an 
> > arrangement.  > 
> >   > 
> >   >   Alas, Linette was probably not up to 
> doing 
> > the job on her 
> >   > own, in fact, and did a less than satisfactory 
> job. My 
> > proteges 
> >   > Linette and Sandra Karpetas really never were 
> able to 
> > do well on 
> >   > their own and this one experience was Linette's 
> only 
> > solo 
> >   > experience. She couldn't do it well and never 
> did it again.
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   >   I worked on this schedule for 
> methadone, 20 
> > mg/kg of body 
> >   > weight on Day One, and if it was possible, a 
> booster 
> > dose of 
> >   > 14mg/kg 7 days later. But thats expensive. 
> Methadone 
> > people 
> >   > required 5 - 13 days of treatment, they were the 
> most 
> >   > challenging to help.
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   >   Marc Emery
> >   > 
> >   >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   From: John Schwarzkopf 
> <jmcreature at telus.net>>   >   Date: 
> Friday, September 21, 2007 1:26 pm
> >   >   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on 
> > Consciousness , Marc Emery
> >   >   To: The Ibogaine List 
> < ibogaine at mindvox.com >>   > 
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > The temptation has grown since I 
> got back 
> > on the list 
> >   > somehow?? 
> >   >   > and  got to 
> >   >   > read the post from and about Marc 
> Emery..>   >   > 
> >   >   > I wanted to say BEWARE OF MARC EMERY!!
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > Marc recommended a woman to treat 
> John 
> > (who had been on 
> >   >   > Methadone for 5 
> >   >   > years),Linette.
> >   >   > Marc attended one of the pre-
> treatment 
> > meeting with us 
> >   > and he 
> >   >   > took Linette 
> >   >   > to our home the night
> >   >   > of the treatment and collected the 
> second 
> > half of the 
> >   > payment.  > 
> >   >   > (At some point between the pre-
> treatment 
> > meeting and 
> >   > the 
> >   >   > treatment Linette 
> >   >   > called us and said something like 
> "John 
> > is gonna die! 
> >   > John is 
> >   >   > gonna die! I 
> >   >   > can't do this treatment!!
> >   >   > I don't want to go to jail!! My 
> family 
> > don't have money 
> >   > to bail 
> >   >   > me out!My 
> >   >   > family can't afford a good lawyer! 
> John 
> > is gonna die 
> >   > !!" She was 
> >   >   > completely 
> >   >   > hysteric and refused to give
> >   >   >  us back the half of the 
> payment we 
> > already given 
> >   > her (she 
> >   >   > said she had 
> >   >   > spent some of the money on Indra 
> which is 
> > kind of funny 
> >   > since in 
> >   >   > the end we 
> >   >   > used HCL(which we trusted better 
> anyhow))).>   >   > 
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > The treatment went fine (Linette 
> > called  Marc 
> >   > every hour to 
> >   >   > report on what 
> >   >   > was happening) and Linette asked 
> to go 
> > home early after 
> >   > 24 
> >   >   > hours( if I 
> >   >   > remember well)
> >   >   >  because she was coming up 
> with a cold.
> >   >   > I gave her a ride home. and 
> thanked her.. 
> > I was so 
> >   > happy..though 
> >   >   > we had paid 
> >   >   > her (or someone.. she told us that 
> Marc 
> > and the Iboga 
> >   > house were 
> >   >   > getting 
> >   >   > some $$ and Marc told us that
> >   >   > he was not taking any of the cash, 
> just 
> > holding it for 
> >   > Linette) 
> >   >   > , I was 
> >   >   > thinking of buying her a present 
> for her help!!
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > I think it was the next day that 
> John 
> > started to have 
> >   >   > withdrawals.. at first 
> >   >   > I thought it was in his head. but 
> after a 
> > while I could 
> >   > see 
> >   >   > physical 
> >   >   > symptoms he couldn't have faked.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > I called Linette and she told me 
> that 
> > John was not 
> >   > having 
> >   >   > withdrawals. and 
> >   >   > that she was going out for dinner 
> with 
> > her family who 
> >   > was 
> >   >   > visiting from 
> >   >   > Winnipeg .
> >   >   > Also contacted Marc Emery.. 
> couldn't help.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > I was very lucky that Eric Taub 
> explained 
> > to  me 
> >   > (on the 
> >   >   > phone) what was 
> >   >   > happening and recommended booster doses.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > Called Linette again. She was too 
> busy. 
> > Didn't believe 
> >   > we needed 
> >   >   > the 
> >   >   > boosters. Agreed to give us some 
> Indra .. 
> > enough for 
> >   > one 
> >   >   > booster.. in 2 or 3 
> >   >   > days.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > That's when we dug out a HCL stash 
> John 
> > had had for 
> >   > years. 
> >   >   > bought it from 
> >   >   > someone.. didn't know if it was 
> what it 
> > was supposed to 
> >   > be. 
> >   >   > didn't know if 
> >   >   > it had lost potency.
> >   >   > but that was all we had.  And 
> NO 
> > SCALE!! as i 
> >   > tried to 
> >   >   > figure who I could 
> >   >   > call to go get me a scale and 
> bring it 
> > over.. John 
> >   > decided to 
> >   >   > just guess and 
> >   >   > helped himself to a booster dose.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > It worked. John had to take a few 
> booster 
> > doses but it 
> >   > worked. 
> >   >   > And Linette 
> >   >   > was mad that John took booster 
> doses, she 
> > said it 
> >   > messed with 
> >   >   > her data!!
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > If we hadn't had that stash John 
> would 
> > have had to 
> >   > either do 
> >   >   > dope or 
> >   >   > methadone ?? and what are the 
> dangers of 
> > that???  >   > How long after Ibogaine is it 
> safe 
> > to take anything??
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > Marc Emery and his friend put us 
> in a 
> > situation way 
> >   > worse that 
> >   >   > where we had 
> >   >   > been in the first place.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > My idea is that they didn't know 
> about 
> > booster doses . 
> >   > Didn't 
> >   >   > know that 
> >   >   > methadone users are more likely to 
> > require them.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > Other people said that John's 
> treatment 
> > was a set up 
> >   > and that he 
> >   >   > was 
> >   >   > supposed to relapse. (That Marc's 
> crew 
> > knew full well 
> >   > he would 
> >   >   > need 
> >   >   > boosters).
> >   >   > I have to attribute this to paranoia.
> >   >   > Or is it a possibility?
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > I think it would be very wrong for 
> Canada 
> > to extradite 
> >   > Marc Emery.
> >   >   > but I would feel way better 
> knowing he 
> > wasn't treating 
> >   > people 
> >   >   > with Ibogaine.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > If you get treated by his crew for 
> > Methadone  I'd 
> >   > recommend 
> >   >   > having a stash 
> >   >   > of Ibogaine handy in case they 
> drop 
> > you  half way.
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > Catherine Morency
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   >   > From: "Patrick K. Kroupa" 
> > <digital at phantom.com>  >   > To: "The 
> Ibogaine 
> > List" < ibogaine at mindvox.com >; "The 
> >   > War on 
> >   >   > Consciousness" 
> >   >   > <drugwar at mindvox.com>; 
> > <sacrament at mindvox.com>; 
> >   >   > <vox at mindvox.com>; 
> >   >   > <crashtestdummies at mindvox.com>; 
> >   > <resurrection at mindvox.com>  > Sent: 
> Friday, 
> > September 
> >   > 21, 2007 2:01 AM
> >   >   > Subject: [Ibogaine] The War on 
> Consciousness>   >   > 
> >   >   > 
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > > If you have any interest 
> whatsoever 
> > regarding the 
> >   > negative 
> >   >   > impact of
> >   >   > > the War on Consciousness; I 
> meant to 
> > say DRUGS -- 
> >   > PLEASE take the
> >   >   > > time to check out the following 
> link, 
> > and take some 
> >   > sort of action.
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > > 
> > http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4639.html  
> > >   > >
> >   >   > > Even if you're broke, you can 
> write a 
> > letter or make 
> >   > a phone call.
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > > Amongst his other projects, Marc 
> Emery 
> > is the founder 
> >   > of Iboga
> >   >   > > Therapy House, and has devoted a 
> > tremendous amount of 
> >   > his time,
> >   >   > > effort and cashflow, to helping 
> drug-
> > dependent 
> >   > individuals obtain
> >   >   > > free access to ibogaine.
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > > His extradition hearing has been 
> > scheduled to begin 
> >   > on 
> >   >   > November 5th,
> >   >   > > 2007.
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > > If you support drug-reform, harm 
> > reduction, or basic 
> >   > human liberty
> >   >   > > and freedom of choice, please 
> take a 
> > few minutes and 
> >   > do 
> >   >   > whatever you
> >   >   > > can.
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > > Thanks,
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > > Patrick
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   > >  -=[) ::::::: MindVox | 
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