[Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness

simon loxton simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Sep 23 05:36:23 EDT 2007


I agree there; not that it makes any difference if I give my opinion or not but I do think it was a good thing to put money into whatever mistakes were made along the way. I have heard good things about ITH now and I am in contact with two people who work there. So respect for the effort Marc and I hope you dont get done for distributing seeds. I dont know....the USA and their fuckin war on drugs...war on terror.....war on its own people.......WAR WAR WAR


----- Original Message ----
From: Nyc W. Alberts <digitalcomponents at gmail.com>
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, 23 September, 2007 3:06:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness

I'm sorry that John and Catherine had a negative experience at a time when in sounds like protocols weren't fully developed for methadone treatment with ibo, at least at Marc Emery's old clinic, and it sounds like that Linette didn't have the background to adequately deal with a rapidly emerging situation. 

Luckily it didn't turn into a fatal perfect storm, just a very rough and bumpy one.

That being said, it seems to me that there were other ways to address this issue, instead of jacking this thread just because you're one out of, I don't know how many, hundreds of people that got treated at ITH, that's got an axe to grind.

If it was an ongoing trend that had 5 or more people go through the same sort of thing you did, then there's no doubt in my mind that negative word would have spread throughout this community and that clinic would no longer be in business. Again, sorry things weren't the best for you and John, don't think any of it was intentional, just a bad confluence of events.

Just to get back to the original point of this thread, since some on this list may not be aware of the details, Marc Emery, a Canadian, is facing life imprisonment in a Federal United States Gulag for the crime of distributing marijuana seeds through the mail. That, (and in addition to founding the ITH, something he didn't have to do), pouring millions of his dollars into marijuana legalization efforts in both the USA and Canada, which has gotten the US Government's Drug Warriors panties tied up in a real knot.

Background is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Emery
and be sure to check out this 60 Minutes piece on him: 
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=736801609
Transcript is here: http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v06/n283/a09.htm

I've been to Court for minor, misdemeanor,  bullshit in my life and that was really stressful, so I can't even begin to imagine how bad it is for Marc, and so I'd like to jack this thread back and get away from him having to defend what went on with just one of his Clinic's patients, years ago, and focus on his current dire situation, and what we can do to help him.

Don't know what legal avenues his attorney's are pursuing to defeat his extradition but one idea I'd like to float is to ask if Canadian law has any corollary to French Law where they won't send someone to America if it's a murder case because America has the death penalty. 

Life imprisonment is pretty much a by degrees death sentence and given the disproportion between Canadian Law and American Law this seems like something that can be made a compelling case for.

~Nyc



Marc Emery wrote: 
Linette doesn't work there. Her last experience with ibogaine kind of traumatized her, she didn't like Catherine at all and bailed out of that situation. You are only getting one side of the story but that was Linette's only solo experiment. The current day Iboga House is run by Sandra Karpetas who also trained with me. Sandra is alot more academic and by-the-book so no doubt she is doing a very efficient job, and she's been at it for 4 years now. 


This one experience with Linette is isolated and I helped out but it was after I was sentenced to a jail (pot) that I had to get out of the ibogaine practice and Linette tried it once on her own and I helped but it wasn't a happy experience for her thats why she left after 24 hours.


Marc Emery

----- Original Message -----
From: simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:30 am
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>

> I am in touch with a few people who work at iboga theraph house 
> and dont mind asking if Linette is still working there.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Schwarzkopf <jmcreature at telus.net>
> To: The Ibogaine List <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, 22 September, 2007 3:28:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
> 
> 
> Dana,
>  
> I think that the thread about the price of Ibogaine/ibogaine 
> shortage was titled Practicing Iboga Therapy in Canada
>  
> The thread The War on Conciousness was about supporting Marc 
> Emery and how great a man he is.. I am not so sure whether it 
> was the right thread to reply to.. but I am not convinced it was 
> the wrong place either.
>  
> As far as this list goes, it has helped us a lot. I did suscribe 
> to it for a while before John got treated and If someone who had 
> a similar experience to what we got with the Iboga Therapy House 
> had posted something about it we would have gone somewhere else. 
>  
> I just wanted to say once how much of a nightmare it had been 
> getting treatment through their people . I am glad to hear they 
> are a hard place to get into, which is a sad thing to say 
> considering the people of Vancouver have such an enormous 
> problem with drug addiction. Still you are probably better 
> untreated than in withdrawals after an incomplete treatment and 
> going to score ..???
>  
> I don't know if Linette is working at the Iboga Therapy house 
> they are somewhat secretive. I just called their number and 
> got  voicemail. Who knows? Maybe someone will tell us?
>  
>  
> Catherine
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Dana Beal 
> To: The Ibogaine List 
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
> 
> 
> My point was not to belittle you, but to respond to the thread 
> as a whole. Your initial post was kind of a non sequitur, in 
> that you changed the subject from the ibogaine shortage to an 
> inquest into Iboga house and the motivations of Marc Emery. 
> There are many, many providers out there. More than I know of. 
> Most are involved in a steep learning curve. This list helps 
> disseminate information such as step-dosing, adequate hydration 
> and proper pretreatment echo-cardiagram that MAPS and their 
> coterie are not providing because they're a bunch of mdma docs. 
> 
> 
> Does Linnette still even work at Ibogatherapy house, BTW? I 
> think the current Vancouver crew may in fact be over-reacting in 
> the other direction-- not treating people who could be treated 
> because they're being over-cautious. As for the death's door 
> remark, the fact is that the lifetime mortality for opiate 
> addicts is 50%. Sooner or later you overdose, contact HIV or hep 
> C, do long periods in prison, or have some other horrible shit 
> happen to you. 
> 
> 
> Right now Howard is spending a lot of time seeing Ilah at Mt. 
> Sinai, where she's dying of endstage liver cancer. Until 
> recently, she felt pretty fortunate because NYC has a good 
> welfare program for people with AIDS. She contracted hep C and 
> HIV back in the '80's when some one used her needle without 
> telling her. People on the list may remember her from the movie 
> with George C. Scott where she played the 14 year old who runs 
> away from home in Michigan  to become a sex worker in L.A. 
> Or maybe it was Las Vegas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana/cnw 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 21, 2007, at 7:41 PM, John Schwarzkopf wrote:
> 
> 
> DANA,
>  
> I'm glad to hear that the Iboga Therapy house is hard to get into.
> Seeing Marc discussing the price of Ibogaine got me a bit frightened.
> This was a terrifying experience and I simply hope that others 
> don't have to go through the same thing.
>  
> Someone posted this:
> "Amongst his other projects, Marc Emery is the founder of Iboga 
> Therapy House, and has devoted a tremendous amount of his time,
>  effort and cashflow, to helping drug-dependent individuals 
> obtain free access to ibogaine."
>  and I guess I had to comment on the time and effort I 
> witnessed Marc put into the access to Ibogaine.
>  
> Go ahead and support Marc Emery in his fight against 
> extradition.. I am just truly afraid of him and/or his friends 
> providing botched treatment.
>  
> at http://pot.tv/archive/shows/pottvshowse-1977.html you can 
> watch an interview where the interviewer ask Marc "Doesn't that 
> worry you that someone could die?"
> and he answers "Oh,no! No! Cause these people might die anyway, 
> they are hardcore drug users. I mean many of them are at Death's 
> doorsteps when I meet them"
> and he does seem so unconcerned.He is all about the movement 
> which is great. but has no consideration for the individual 
> which sucks.
>  
>  
> Catherine
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Dana Beal 
> To: The Ibogaine List 
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The War on Consciousness , Marc Emery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 21, 2007, at 5:46 PM, John Schwarzkopf wrote:
> 
> 
> I was with John, we live together and the treatment took place 
> in our home.
> That was a few years ago.. I had unsubscribed to the list since 
> then but now I am back on it..
> and seeing the posts about Marc Emery just made me want to say 
> .. there's got to be a better option than trust Marc Emery's people.
> 
> 
> Most people on this List are aware that Iboga Therapy House is 
> too difficult to get into, and maybe unduelly entangled with 
> their  MAPS sponsored longitudinal trial, but I don't see 
> what your problems with Linnette have to do with either our 
> supporting Marc to keep him from winding up in a US prison for 
> the rest of his life, OR the price of ibogaine. 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of this thread, Marc correctly focused on the 
> price of ibogaine. As this treatment takes off, the junkies of 
> the world are gonna drain off ALL HCl, so there will be no more 
> "psycho-spiritual" treatments for psychedelic tourists UNLESS 
> you go to Gabon. This is what I told NIDA in the early '90's, 
> when I predicted Ibogaine would become too expensive to be a 
> street drug-- so there was no point in keeping it illegal.
> 
> 
> The process Randy is referring to involves the synthesis of 
> ibogaine or 18 MC from voacangine-- which IS cheap and 
> plentiful. We're working on that, among others. GMP grade 
> ibogaine will be available for research and treatment purposes 
> when this synthesis is adapted for mass production.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana/cnw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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