[Ibogaine] church of scientology vs. ibogaine

Luke Christoffersen luke.christoffersen at gmail.com
Tue Sep 18 15:50:22 EDT 2007


Apparently baby can be aware of it's mothers feelings an emotions in the
womb and this can effect development.  I think everyone we come into contact
with shapes us.  Particularly in childhood.  Parents and teachers and others
sometimes manipulate children to towards certain ways.  I don't know if you
could call it hypnosis but there can definitely be manipulation  through
fear and other degrading methods.

I suppose people who are brought up with more manipulation and robbed of
their self esteem would be more susceptible to suggestion. I remember a
scientology guy standing on the street in Dublin offering free personality
tests.  Someone said they use these to help them gain power over you by
finding your weakness.  He's still there standing in a doorway trying to
lure people in.


Luke

On 9/18/07, Otra Cosa <equismas at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  hi, it is the first time i write here, though i've been already reading
> the digest since a few months.
> forgive my english if any mistakes for english is not my first languaje
>
> i chckd out that therapy page:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Therapists" giving someone ibogaine, can knowingly or unknowingly lay in
> hypnotic commands. Drug addiction itself can be created by a sort of
> hypnotic command to "use" again while the addict is on drugs.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> i myself am not a therapist, nor a psychiatrist, but a philosophy student,
> i just wanted to check out with you guys, if any of you, as
> therapists/psychiatrists think it is possible to "unknowingly lay in
> hipnotic commands" on people, cuz i just thought, that if something like
> that could ever be possible, well, we'd be all already hipnotized somehow..
> i come to think that i'de be hipnotized by my own mother since i was
> conceived in-side her, and, well, my brains were kind of in a "tabula rasa"
> state then
> - you know, only genetic commands at subconscious levels, on celular
> scale, but no reasoning, nor articulate thinking of something like
> "i-am-doing-this-because-of-THAT",
> where THAT is our definite motivation for doing whatever we do,
>
> well, that leads to think on a mother unknowingly encouraging his breed in
> utero
>
> think now that emotional distress from mother's could at least interfere
> with the emotional posibilities of a genetically designed human being - aka
> "hipnotize him"
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> "Putting the drug addict back into control of their own lives has been a
> goal of many for hundreds of years. "
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> the dreamy state of hipnosis, isn't it conscious? i think it is, but
> heavily motivated by the chemicals running on our brains. i come to think
> that even when i am awake, doing my stuff, i am "hypnotized" by this idea
> that i HAVE to do stuff, and give sense to my life. hell, good mothers keep
> saying so, we were all raised("if lucky") on that thinking pattern - and
> when we escape of it, there you have it, "unadapted person", etc.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> "William Benitez, the founder of Narconon, discovered the best way out of
> addiction was to raise his own abilities so he could beat addiction himself,
> without drugs."
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> OH GREAT DISCOVERER.    i'd like to say more, but i am in a hurry, well..
>
> salud.
>
> luciano
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:47:16 -0700
> > From: vector620022002 at yahoo.com
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] church of scientology vs. ibogaine
> >
> > Reposting this thread since I don't think it went out to the full list,
> > this was for me anyway the temporary MindVox is back that worked for 2
> > days last week :)
> >
> > .:vector:.
> >
> > --- wleetheriot <wleetheriot at ca.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I really like this video:
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBMcKLEIp8&mode=related&search=
> > >
> > > Warren
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 8, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Nick Sandberg wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Matthew and others,
> > > >
> > > > God, there's some utter bollocks on the Net! I couldn't believe
> > > > anyone could write such drivel and pass themselves off as
> > > > understanding psychiatry or being fit to treat addiction! I wrote
> > > > detox-narconon.org this
> > > >
> > > > "Hi there, I read your page www.detox-narconon.org/Ibogaine-
> > > > effects.html I'm sorry, but I've been following the ibogaine story
> > >
> > > > for nearly 10 years and work as a therapist here in the UK, and
> > > > what you're written is utterly mis-informed and makes little sense
> > >
> > > > from a psychoanalytical perspective. Ibogaine is no magic bullet
> > > > for sure, and the reputation it has developed over the years for
> > > > potentially being so has been exploited by some proponents and
> > > > caused it to be sought after by those with addiction issues who are
> > >
> > > > seeking an "easy way out." They're attracted to ibogaine for the
> > > > wrong reasons. However to write fear-filled nonsense like this is,
> > >
> > > > imo, utterly unprofessional and simply demonstrates a complete lack
> > >
> > > > of understanding of basic principles in psychiatry and the
> > > > treatment of addiction. Are you interested in removing it or
> > > > altering it so that it at least demonstrates a modicum of
> > > awareness?
> > > > Regards
> > > > Nick Sandberg
> > > > etc, etc "
> > > >
> > > > BTW, I'm loving this - http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?
> > > > docid=5547481422995115331 Currently #2 in the google.video daily
> > >
> > > > chart with 35,000 views daily and it's chalked up nearly 2.5million
> > >
> > > > since release online in late Jun 07.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, again, does anyone know what's happened to the list? Did
> > > > Patrick not pay the electric bill?
> > > >
> > > > Nick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:Matt at ITSupport.net]
> > > > Sent: 03 September 2007 22:16
> > > > To: 'Luke Christoffersen'; HSLotsof at aol.com
> > > > Cc: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com; simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk;
> > > > ekkijdfg at gmx.de; mattzielinski at hotmail.com; nick227 at tiscali.co.uk;
> > >
> > > > Dana at phantom.com; knehnav at xs4all.nl; slowone at hush.ai;
> > > > captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk; ptpeet at nyc.rr.com;
> > > > vector620022002 at yahoo.com; freedomroot at gmail.com;
> > > > jasenhappy at optusnet.com.au; wleetheriot at ca.rr.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dogy ibogaine misinformation page
> > > >
> > > > Well the fact that they have this link at the bottom of the page
> > > > kinda says what they know about ibogaine:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Click here — how to fully recover from the effect of iboga
> > > addiction
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:luke.christoffersen at gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 7:24 AM
> > > > To: HSLotsof at aol.com
> > > > Cc: Matt at itsupport.net; bicuitboy714 at gmail.com;
> > > > simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk; ekkijdfg at gmx.de;
> > > > mattzielinski at hotmail.com; nick227 at tiscali.co.uk; Dana at phantom.com;
> > >
> > > > knehnav at xs4all.nl; slowone at hush.ai; captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk;
> > > > ptpeet at nyc.rr.com; vector620022002 at yahoo.com;
> > > > freedomroot at gmail.com; jasenhappy at optusnet.com.au;
> > > > wleetheriot at ca.rr.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dogy ibogaine misinformation page
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > they seem to call ibogaine brain washing. What's even worse I
> > > > think this site must have some link the cult of scientology. The
> > > > have links to L Ron hubbards books on it anyway.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.detox-narconon.org/Ibogaine-effects.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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