[Ibogaine] church of scientology vs. ibogaine

Otra Cosa equismas at hotmail.com
Tue Sep 18 15:33:56 EDT 2007


hi, it is the first time i write here, though i've been already reading the digest since a few months.
forgive my english if any mistakes for english is not my first languaje

i chckd out that therapy page:  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Therapists" 
              giving someone ibogaine, can knowingly or unknowingly lay in hypnotic 
              commands. Drug addiction itself can be created by a sort of hypnotic 
              command to "use" again while the addict is on drugs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i myself am not a therapist, nor a psychiatrist, but a philosophy student, i just wanted to check out with you guys, if any of you, as therapists/psychiatrists think it is possible to "unknowingly lay in hipnotic commands" on people, cuz i just thought, that if something like that could ever be possible, well, we'd be all already hipnotized somehow.. 
i come to think that i'de be hipnotized by my own mother since i was conceived in-side her, and, well, my brains were kind of in a "tabula rasa" state then 
- you know, only genetic commands at subconscious levels, on celular scale, but no reasoning, nor articulate thinking of something like "i-am-doing-this-because-of-THAT", 
where THAT is our definite motivation for doing whatever we do,

well, that leads to think on a mother unknowingly encouraging his breed in utero

think now that emotional distress from mother's could at least interfere with the emotional posibilities of a genetically designed human being - aka "hipnotize him"

----------------------------------------------------------------
"Putting the drug addict back into control of their 
              own lives has been a goal of many for hundreds of years. "
----------------------------------------------------------------

the dreamy state of hipnosis, isn't it conscious? i think it is, but heavily motivated by the chemicals running on our brains. i come to think that even when i am awake, doing my stuff, i am "hypnotized" by this idea that i HAVE to do stuff, and give sense to my life. hell, good mothers keep saying so, we were all raised("if lucky") on that thinking pattern - and when we escape of it, there you have it, "unadapted person", etc.

----------------------------------------------------------
"William 
              Benitez, the founder of Narconon, discovered the best way out of 
              addiction was to raise his own abilities so he could beat addiction 
              himself, without drugs."
----------------------------------------------------------

OH GREAT DISCOVERER.    i'd like to say more, but i am in a hurry, well..

salud.

luciano



> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:47:16 -0700
> From: vector620022002 at yahoo.com
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] church of scientology vs. ibogaine
> 
> Reposting this thread since I don't think it went out to the full list,
> this was for me anyway the temporary MindVox is back that worked for 2
> days last week :)
> 
> .:vector:.
> 
> --- wleetheriot <wleetheriot at ca.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> > I really like this video:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBMcKLEIp8&mode=related&search=
> > 
> > Warren
> > 
> > 
> > On Sep 8, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Nick Sandberg wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Matthew and others,
> > >
> > > God, there's some utter bollocks on the Net! I couldn't believe  
> > > anyone could write such drivel and pass themselves off as  
> > > understanding psychiatry or being fit to treat addiction! I wrote  
> > > detox-narconon.org this
> > >
> > > "Hi there, I read your page www.detox-narconon.org/Ibogaine- 
> > > effects.html  I'm sorry, but I've been following the ibogaine story
> > 
> > > for nearly 10 years and work as a therapist here in the UK, and  
> > > what you're written is utterly mis-informed and makes little sense 
> > 
> > > from a psychoanalytical perspective. Ibogaine is no magic bullet  
> > > for sure, and the reputation it has developed over the years for  
> > > potentially being so has been exploited by some proponents and  
> > > caused it to be sought after by those with addiction issues who are
> >  
> > > seeking an "easy way out." They're attracted to ibogaine for the  
> > > wrong reasons. However to write fear-filled nonsense like this is, 
> > 
> > > imo, utterly unprofessional and simply demonstrates a complete lack
> >  
> > > of understanding of basic principles in psychiatry and the  
> > > treatment of addiction. Are you interested in removing it or  
> > > altering it so that it at least demonstrates a modicum of
> > awareness?
> > > Regards
> > > Nick Sandberg
> > > etc, etc "
> > >
> > > BTW, I'm loving  this - http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay? 
> > > docid=5547481422995115331   Currently #2 in the google.video daily 
> > 
> > > chart with 35,000 views daily and it's chalked up nearly 2.5million
> >  
> > > since release online in late Jun 07.
> > >
> > > BTW, again, does anyone know what's happened to the list? Did  
> > > Patrick not pay the electric bill?
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:Matt at ITSupport.net]
> > > Sent: 03 September 2007 22:16
> > > To: 'Luke Christoffersen'; HSLotsof at aol.com
> > > Cc: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com; simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk;  
> > > ekkijdfg at gmx.de; mattzielinski at hotmail.com; nick227 at tiscali.co.uk; 
> > 
> > > Dana at phantom.com; knehnav at xs4all.nl; slowone at hush.ai;  
> > > captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk; ptpeet at nyc.rr.com;  
> > > vector620022002 at yahoo.com; freedomroot at gmail.com;  
> > > jasenhappy at optusnet.com.au; wleetheriot at ca.rr.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dogy ibogaine misinformation page
> > >
> > > Well the fact that they have this link at the bottom of the page  
> > > kinda says what they know about ibogaine:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Click here — how to fully recover from the effect of iboga
> > addiction
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:luke.christoffersen at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 7:24 AM
> > > To: HSLotsof at aol.com
> > > Cc: Matt at itsupport.net; bicuitboy714 at gmail.com;  
> > > simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk; ekkijdfg at gmx.de;  
> > > mattzielinski at hotmail.com; nick227 at tiscali.co.uk; Dana at phantom.com;
> >  
> > > knehnav at xs4all.nl; slowone at hush.ai; captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk;  
> > > ptpeet at nyc.rr.com; vector620022002 at yahoo.com;  
> > > freedomroot at gmail.com; jasenhappy at optusnet.com.au;  
> > > wleetheriot at ca.rr.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dogy ibogaine misinformation page
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > they seem to call ibogaine brain washing.  What's even worse I  
> > > think this site must have some link the cult of scientology.  The  
> > > have links to L Ron hubbards books on it anyway.
> > >
> > > http://www.detox-narconon.org/Ibogaine-effects.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>        
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