From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 02:03:07 2007 From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 02:03:07 -0400 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. In-Reply-To: References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> Message-ID: <1f5488f0710312303m1be94ebdyc65e6c0d52a95a65@mail.gmail.com> I'd imagine a lot of us around here are in the same boat w/ that guy Pi. >From day one mine never was there even though i grew up 2 miles from where he lived. Seen him a couple times in the grocery store after he was pointed out, and once at his father's funeral (first time I saw my granddad) but that's been it, never spoke a word. Maybe its better that way who knows -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/78350222/attachment.htm From digitalcomponents at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 02:33:50 2007 From: digitalcomponents at gmail.com (Nyc W. Alberts) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] OT via annuder list I'm on Re: : Linda Stein found slain In-Reply-To: <20071031221646.M20629@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <20071031221646.M20629@kzsu.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4729734E.3040606@gmail.com> J.C. wrote: >> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/nyregion/01murder.html?_r=3&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin >> >> >> >> Biggest way her life touched me had to have been via Sire records. . So my instincts weren't that far off these last couple of days, when I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. damn. double whammy. One thing I loved about the Sire Records label is that when a vinyl platter of theirs was spinning on the turntable @ 33rpm, if I kept my eye on the 'yin/yang' logo of theirs, which stood affixed many of the best records of my misspent youth: it looked like it was in motion.... I was born on 5th Avenue, where this travesty occurred, this is horrible news. On the other hand, hopefully The Albert is OK. .. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/df7a6510/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2633 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/df7a6510/attachment.jpeg From JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM Thu Nov 1 02:32:57 2007 From: JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM (LEE) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 00:32:57 -0600 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> <1f5488f0710312303m1be94ebdyc65e6c0d52a95a65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't understand what you mean when you say "that guy Pi." can you clairify? junky yard boy specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Hays To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. I'd imagine a lot of us around here are in the same boat w/ that guy Pi. From day one mine never was there even though i grew up 2 miles from where he lived. Seen him a couple times in the grocery store after he was pointed out, and once at his father's funeral (first time I saw my granddad) but that's been it, never spoke a word. Maybe its better that way who knows -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/fd749d56/attachment.htm From wleetheriot at ca.rr.com Thu Nov 1 04:05:10 2007 From: wleetheriot at ca.rr.com (Warren L. Theriot) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 01:05:10 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine In-Reply-To: References: <4c90d90710281034i37cc6ef7re13749617f02085e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <537DBD3F-424A-4A39-95A7-6A6797E1EE1A@ca.rr.com> Howard, I have to add that although I feel pretty optimistic these days most of the time, it hasn't been all smooth sailing the last 5 months. Overall I'm more satisfied now than I was 2 1/2 months ago. And thats mostly for the lack of withdrawal symptoms and for a great boost in my mood from what it used to be like. Because I was a lot less satisfied in August, I started planning to do another session then so I'll be doing it again next week as thats where the planning and timing comes down to now. In the last 2 1/2 months I kept finding myself feeling stronger physically and mentally even after the afterglow had left. I have a lot more to work on for depression and motivation so thats what I hope will get another boost from this next round. And I have been in a lot of pain from my neck and shoulder arthritis since I got off the codeine. I cope with the discomfort and so far I haven't touched any opiates. Somehow I seem to feel the rest of me feels so good from being opiate free for so long it makes up for the stiff neck. I re-gained a lot of general patience from my experience with Ibogaine so far. I really appreciate what you have done to make this all possible. On Oct 29, 2007, at 3:47 AM, Warren L. Theriot wrote: > Howard, > 1- I took a chance and I believed that Ibogaine was going to stop the > withdrawals from codeine. I had tried for 4 yrs to stop by cutting > back or going without and it > was too painful an ordeal to keep doing the same thing with no end in > sight. > 2- Yes, 99.99% for the chronic pain I used to complain about. I used > to feel a lot of jitters in my body but that has mostly stopped > unless I get really tired. I just got over a cold and when I was > feeling really bad a week ago, I felt that old jittery feeling in my > muscles. > 3- The experience gave me a renewed feeling of feeling my real self > again. My insomnia went away. I lost most of my oversensitivity to > noises like dogs barking and now they are amusing rather than > annoying. And I was able to end a long time of grieving over lost > friends and family. My digestive system is normal again thanks to not > taking any opiates in over 5 months. And I seemed to have forgotten > that Pavlovian response for craving any more of that particular high. > I can imagine it, but then I can discriminate the memory of a natural > endorphin high over an artificial one. I also have a strong memory of > how bad I felt when taking the pills didn't make me feel good enough > and there was no rational reason to keep on trying to fix the pain > problem in that manner. My legs and feet just stopped hurting like > they used to. I'm pretty happy about all this. Yo Way Yo! > Warren > > On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Howard Lotsof wrote: > >> As part of my presentation on ibogaine at the international harm >> reduction conference in Barcelona I would like to provide information >> on why people take ibogaine. Would you briefly answer the following >> questions. >> >> 1. Why did you decide to take ibogaine? >> >> 2. Were your expectations met? >> >> 3. What if anything did your ibogaine experience do for you? >> >> 4. If you were a methadone patient, why did you decide to take >> ibogaine? >> >> Thanks >> >> Howard >> >> -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- >> (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) >> -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- > > > -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- > (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) > -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From bradleyheathhays at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 05:17:09 2007 From: bradleyheathhays at gmail.com (Brad Hays) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 05:17:09 -0400 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. In-Reply-To: References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> <1f5488f0710312303m1be94ebdyc65e6c0d52a95a65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f5488f0711010217q795d5466ie4c205fb88e176eb@mail.gmail.com> Lee bro that's tough dude. That's the kind of childhood my mom went through and her dad was a serious prick. He hasn't kicked it yet but as far as we're concerned he's dead. Took a real long time for mom to let go of him with all the father daughter issues that just never seemed to end. Here's two things that helped mum out a lot, first she finally came to the realization that his opinions really weren't worth shit, and then she started meditating on her own passing, becoming comfortable with her own eventual death. Sucks to even think about but both these realizations have really helped her outlook. Exercise helped tons too Yea that Pi guy...talking about Life of Pi by Yann Martel. It's a book i been trying to get back into, really good philosophical read. Pi is a little guy that ends up in a life boat in the ocean along with a lion hyena a monkey or something like that. Hell of a boat to be in huh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/b8538c70/attachment.htm From somesh at drumjam.co.uk Thu Nov 1 06:53:21 2007 From: somesh at drumjam.co.uk (Somesh De Swardt) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:53:21 -0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. In-Reply-To: <27635215.1193868345010.JavaMail.root@m35> References: <27635215.1193868345010.JavaMail.root@m35> Message-ID: <00cb01c81c75$6ca47e10$0302a8c0@NEWLAPTOP> Hi Lee I hope you don't allow this "small" incident to send you off the rails. You sound pretty upset and I can understand that you would be. You have a lot of emotion, personal effort and money invested in your yard. However are you going to let the City dictate your life, yes in a sense they can dictate whether you clean up your yard, even though its totally unfair. But they really dictate your life if you let them be an excuse to get high, because we all know where that path leads. As I see it (it helps not to be emotionally tied to the situation, so yes its easier for anyone else to comment) you can either let this be another excuse to go down, or you could let this be something that kicks you into making changes that help you upward. I know you can find a positive solution that will empower you! Even if its just the knowledge that you didn't let this negative situation affect you as situations would have affected you in the past, wouldn't that be a victory! Life is like that, but at any negative stage, I try and remember that there are always people going through worse than me, and that it doesn't matter how bad it gets there are always things I can be grateful for and as long as you focus on those things, then nothing can get you down. If you need any guidance I have found the Abraham hicks teaching excellent, check them out at www.abraham-hicks.com they have helped me a lot to be in control of my emotions. Hope it goes well mate. Wishes Somesh _____ From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of LEE Sent: 31 October 2007 21:04 To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. today has to be the worst day in a long time... ive been cleaning my fucking yard up.. I spent quite a bit of time and money putting a fence up so the city cant see all my motorcycles (over 100) now the decided that I cant have that so I have 30 days to get rid of all of them and that's how I make my living. im just planning on tearing all the bikes down to the engine and parts and putting them in a storage unit and throwing the frames away, but they said if I don't have it done in 60 days they will sentence me to jail for 180 days,for a god damn yard that has too many motorcycles that you cant see unless you tresspass on my private road and climb up and take pictures over my solid tin fence that you cant see a fucking thing through from a public street..... grrrrrr......... I have so much to do and im sooooo overwhelemed....I want to get high...... fuck....... im doing my best to stay the hell away from anything, or if I can hold one till tonight, my buddy will hit me up with a suboxone so that even if I take something,it wont do anything......... FUCK, FUCK, FUCK....... im going to register some fucking ugly bikes and park them on my porch when im done with this..... im talking the worst of the worst I can make fire up..ripped seats, rusty. FUCK junky monkey fuck fuck fuck........ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/1d45ffd9/attachment-0001.htm From wardconn at hotmail.com Thu Nov 1 08:35:06 2007 From: wardconn at hotmail.com (edward conn) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:35:06 +0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. In-Reply-To: <008a01c81c10$28188850$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> <008a01c81c10$28188850$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> Message-ID: Matt, Either way, I'm sorry to hear about your father. I was'nt as close to my father when he died now over 12 yerars ago, but like what you said about your own, he provided well for me. But bottom line is, I'm only able to remember him and thats what I'm left with. Thats precious. My mum was diagnosed with bowel cancer two months ago and it looked like the worse days of my life where about to descend, but by the grace of whatever, she has made a remarkable recovery after surgery and is bouncing back strength to strength, and with it has healed rifts that have torn the family aprt between my brother and myself since my father past on. It all feel s like the end of an horrendous cycle of family destitution, following the loss of a critical member - my father. So we are all counting our blessings. Appreciating what we have got, which pain blacked out. Ed From: Matt at ITSupport.net To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:48:29 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. I can?t decide actually. I am sad I guess but I am also kind of pissed. Because never having had a very meaningful relationship with him, now I know I never will. But he was a good financial provider even if he never was emotionally available. He helped me pay for my methadone for years. Whether or not that was a good thing or not I can?t say but it certainly helped me keep from being uncomfortable. I guess it was a good thing because I am sure I would have ended up doing whatever it took to get money for opiates one way or another and at least that way I wasn?t committing quite so many crimes. I guess I just wish he had been able to love me. He said he did, but I never felt loved by him. I won?t be chiseling his name off of anything but I certainly don?t plan on engraving it anywhere either. I do sympathize with your motorcycle/authority/livelihood issue though. I think it seriously sucks. I hate how the machinery that human beings put in place to help live together in a society all too often is the very machinery that grinds down the members of the same society. But believe me when I say that you don?t have to get loaded over it. Feelings are stupid but they generally pass all by themselves when you actually feel them. Matt From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of LEE Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:56 PM To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. nobody super close to me has died lately... if you liked your father, im sorry for your loss... I don?t mean to be flip, but when my dad died Imy sister and I got a chisel and cut his name off of his grave stone. granite is damn hard.. it took hours...... its hard for me to imagine anyone who likes their father.... thanks jnky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Shriver To: 'The Ibogaine List' Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. Did anybody die? Because I just found out a few hours ago that my dad did. I don't mean to be flip or to discount your troubles because they certainly sound real. But maybe this will help your perspective a little? Matt From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of LEE Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:17 PM To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. k, I feel a little better. not much,but some...... junky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: LEE To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. today has to be the worst day in a long time... ive been cleaning my fucking yard up.. I spent quite a bit of time and money putting a fence up so the city cant see all my motorcycles (over 100) now the decided that I cant have that so I have 30 days to get rid of all of them and that's how I make my living. im just planning on tearing all the bikes down to the engine and parts and putting them in a storage unit and throwing the frames away, but they said if I don't have it done in 60 days they will sentence me to jail for 180 days,for a god damn yard that has too many motorcycles that you cant see unless you tresspass on my private road and climb up and take pictures over my solid tin fence that you cant see a fucking thing through from a public street..... grrrrrr......... I have so much to do and im sooooo overwhelemed....I want to get high...... fuck....... im doing my best to stay the hell away from anything, or if I can hold one till tonight, my buddy will hit me up with a suboxone so that even if I take something,it wont do anything......... FUCK, FUCK, FUCK....... im going to register some fucking ugly bikes and park them on my porch when im done with this..... im talking the worst of the worst I can make fire up..ripped seats, rusty. FUCK junky monkey fuck fuck fuck........ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/e578b505/attachment.htm From somesh_groups at hotmail.com Thu Nov 1 10:59:47 2007 From: somesh_groups at hotmail.com (somesh_groups at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:59:47 +0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] successful mission... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi jasen I don't have any experience with ibogaine and alcohol addiction. However I did experience one miracle with a guy who I did a ayahuasca journey with. It was facilitated by a bolivian shaman called bola. He had a horrendous trip on the vine, but came back the next day and was completelly transformed. The next time I saw him, he had not touched alcohol for 11 days which was a record for him. He was totally different the next day it was amazing. Cheers Somesh ------------------ -----Original Message----- From: jasen chamoun Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:30:50 To:The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... ---------------- Hey Randy, ? Nice to hear from you my brother. I ask questions sometimes to get other peoples opinions even though I may already have my own idea, it's good to get other opinions. ? I recently had someone, a girl, who was quite big and on methadone, hence the question.? ? With alcohol, I hear that 2 ibogaine sessions are necessary with about 1 month in between. Has this been peoples experience? There is a lot of conflicting information with alcohol and it would be good to have the lists opinion/experiences? with treating for alcohol or being treated. ? 2 people that I know of had a single dose of ibogaine for alcohol and the urge to have a drink came back within a few days and?they didn't experience an?after glow. I understand that a second treament is nesscessary however I would love to hear from others with their experiences with alcohol. ? I also hear and have seen that people having ibogaine for alcohol have a very rough trip. So far this seems to be the case. ? Thanks for those who offered their opinions,..much appreciated. ? With love, Jasen ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ? ? ?????? I didn't realize it was you, Jasen my brother, asking this question. You know what I'm talking about as far as observation on the client is concerned. These kind of questions should be in a book. I can see it now..............The Ibogaine Treatment Primer............read at your own risk.......these facts are to be taken with 45 pounds of grains of salt.............we by no means are saying we know anything about this?experimental treatment..............this book was taken down by listening to Patrick Kroupa talk in his sleep after doing 2000 mcgs of LSD 25. ? ???????????? Peace Love and Solidarity ??????????????? Randy ? On 10/26/07, Randy Faulconer > wrote: ????????????? Yea, now these are the questions I dig the most. Very good questions too. I know of a guy who weighed 300 lbs. and was on methadone. The way the math worked out half a gram was a 3 mg cap. It took 3 grams just to get him to the 16 mg flood dose. Now the way these guys do the treatment is to go to 16 and observe where the person is at. This guy was fine at 16 and didn't need to go any further. He refused to take a booster so the treatment took 3 grams just to get him to 16. I personally would have liked to see the guy do 2 more boosters during the course of a week after the treatment. It didn't happen that way though. You can't force somebody to do a booster. I guess what I'm trying to say is this is where experience comes in handy. Your provider should be able to ascertain where you are and if you need to take more. There is no set dose that really does it. Some people just take more than others. I did over 32 mgs per kg when I did my treatment. I guess that shows how much of a fry I am. LOL ? ???????? This is why people need an experienced provider with them. The person doing the Ibogaine sure as hell won't know what is going on in terms of dose.?They just needs to trust the provider, lay back and groove, and eat what caps they are given. That's what I did and it seemed to work. My provider had done over 50 treatments when he got to me. ? ?????? As for your question Matt, I'd like to know that too. I'd say Ms Mash might have some idea on that but won't let us know. It'll be in the book LOL LOL. It's just conjecture at this point as to if a bigger person?would have a longer nor-ibogaine glow. I'm kinda big for my height and my glow seemed to last for a couple of months. But then again that's just conjecture on my part, I really couldn't prove that. ? ???????? Peace Love and Knowledge? ?????????? Randy ? On 10/26/07, Matthew Shriver > wrote: Hi Aimee I think you would still go with the large over-all dose.? The person may not have a bigger brain but that bigger body means the ibogaine is more diffuse throughout all of that tissue.? Which means the concentration in the brain is still on par with a smaller weight person who takes a smaller dose.? But as to where you would stop, I would say if the person was pushing massive obesity then the chance of complicating factors, like heart condition, would start to weigh on the decision of weather or not to dose at all.? I would say the cutoff would be due to those kinds of health issues rather than how large the mg/kg dose is going to have to be.? So for example a 160kg basketball player might be ok while a 160kg person who is only 1 meter tall would not.? What I have wondered however is if a bigger person, by virtue of having taken a bigger dose, has a longer after glow because there is more material to be metabolized. Matt ---------------- From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com ] On Behalf Of Aimee Chamoun Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:47 AM To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... ? ????? Hey, ? ????? I was wondering,.....mg per kilo dose of Ibogaine. Is there a cut off point??? I mean what if you get someone that is very ????? over weight. For example,..some one is 5 foot 2 and weighs 120 kilo, if you dose at 20 to 25mg per kilo for methadone thats 2.4? ??????to 3 grms of ibo. Thats a lot of iBOGAINE TO GIVE SOMEONE.Then you probably have to give a booster considering it's methadone.?Then what? if some one weighs a lot more,..surley there is a cut off point as the brain is not any bigger in an overweight person. ? ????? Where does one stop with the weight per kilo ratio,...150 kg,..200. ????? Just a thought........ ? ????? Congratulations Kirky. ? ????? love, ????? Jasen ? ?????? ---------------- Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:44:45 -0700 From: captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... Hiya Randy It is amazing how sensitive the system is post ibo.....all ya want to put in your system for the first wee while is calming things, nutritious.,.....even spirulina may have a slight adverse effect.? Hopefully he can write something soon :) ----- Original Message ---- From: Randy Faulconer < bicuitboy714 at gmail.com > To: The Ibogaine List > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:23:24 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... ???? Yea, what he said. I was going to send a note saying be careful, but I can't tell it as eloquently as Charles. St. Johns wort works along the same avenues as some of the anti depressants, so if it was me I would wait at least a week and then start very low and titrate up. I would think that the need for an anti depressant would be taken care of by the ibogaine/nor-ibogaine in the system. Everybody is different so it is good that you are being cautious. You go grrrl, and best regards to Pedro. I'm looking forward to his take on the whole process, he's an interesting guy and it ought to be enlightening. ? ?????????? Peace Love and Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz sounds ?????????????? Randy ? On 10/23/07, Charles Rossouw < charles at ibogainesa.co.za > wrote: Hey Captain ? For a few hours there may be duplication of the serotonergic and possibly dopaminergic effects, i.e. there may be a potential risk of especially serotonin toxicity reactions.? This is due to the weak MAO inhibitory action of Hypericum, and the inhibitory effects it has on the uptake of Serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline.? These effects caused by St Johns wort are reported to be relatively weak, so the interaction should not precipitate problems at "normal" (15-20mg/kg) doses of Ibogaine, but caution should be exercised nonetheless, by discontinuing St Johns Wart a day or so before and after treatment. ? Kind regards ? Charles? ----- Original Message ----- From: Capt Kirk To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... ? Thanks Mel!! Any of yu knowledgable folks out there know the conflict st johns wort may have with ibo? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Melanie Gutierrez < gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com > To: The Ibogaine List > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... I'm so EXCITED for HIM!!!!? Give him lots of HUGS for me.? Lots of hugs for you too! M ? On 10/21/07, Capt Kirk < captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk > wrote: Happy to report that Pero (Pedro!) had a treatment over the weekend is doing bloody well.??Will get him to report on how it went for him. Cheers Iboganauts! Kirk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam???Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]??:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::??[%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ? ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ? -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%]? :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine ::? [%][) ? -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ? ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ? ---------------- Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au . It's simple! ?-=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] ?:: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: ?[%][) ?-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ---------------- Listen now! New music from the Rogue Traders. -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- From xristine at comcast.net Thu Nov 1 13:23:50 2007 From: xristine at comcast.net (xristine) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:23:50 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> <1f5488f0710312303m1be94ebdyc65e6c0d52a95a65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002001c81cab$fd3937f0$6400a8c0@INNOCOUS> sigh..... ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Hays To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. I'd imagine a lot of us around here are in the same boat w/ that guy Pi. From day one mine never was there even though i grew up 2 miles from where he lived. Seen him a couple times in the grocery store after he was pointed out, and once at his father's funeral (first time I saw my granddad) but that's been it, never spoke a word. Maybe its better that way who knows ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/7bf29452/attachment.htm From djphatkev at hotmail.com Thu Nov 1 13:27:06 2007 From: djphatkev at hotmail.com (Kevin Gustina) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 17:27:06 +0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine (antidepressants) In-Reply-To: <006501c81b00$ecb9f920$43cbb941@barbarao0mvuzh> References: <4c90d90710281034i37cc6ef7re13749617f02085e@mail.gmail.com> <006501c81b00$ecb9f920$43cbb941@barbarao0mvuzh> Message-ID: I agree morphine has antidepressnat qualities. Fourteen years of trying to get off antidepressants unsuccessfully. Explain. Were you addicted to the anti-depressants, and, if so, what were they? Sure. The doctors never called it an addiction, instead a dependence. Because I was not likely to break the law if I can't get ahold of Zoloft. Sounds funny but if it was illegal who knows.... I had a real hard time when I tried to go off them, physically. Ibogaine stopped it for a couple days. Very grateful. Especially to the people on the list that helped me off list and made it an easier journey. Peace From: elgrekkko at carolina.rr.comTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comDate: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:26:55 -0400Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine > 1. Why did you decide to take ibogaine?> Fourteen years of trying to get off antidepressants unsuccessfully. Explain. Were you addicted to the anti-depressants, and, if so, what were they? I've always considered morphine, itself, to have anti-depressant properties. christophercadden _________________________________________________________________ Boo!?Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/d15086df/attachment.htm From xristine at comcast.net Thu Nov 1 13:34:20 2007 From: xristine at comcast.net (xristine) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:34:20 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> Message-ID: <003101c81cad$70d24ed0$6400a8c0@INNOCOUS> I would like to help you turn at least one memory of your childhood into a proud one. The work that your father insisted be a substitute for family life is something that you got the best out of. Look at you today, I for one know how amazing it is for a solid job and work attitude can be to maintain when cursed with a lot of sneaky addictions always ready to raise their voices and demand attention. Sometimes the routines of working get old and we get restless, but at least you know where to go and what to do, that's more than lots of folks with this problems. Don't be late now! Okay that's it for me today. I go back to my observation deck until I work up the nerve to tackle the real topic. Xristine ----- Original Message ----- From: LEE To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. kevin, it sounds like you had someone special to help you become a good man and a good person. its hard for me to understand that people can like their parents, its just something that is really hard for me to grasp. I wish to god that I had a parent or even a mentor or someone I could look up to. I didn?t have time growing up and I was pretty filled with hate, but I was still a good guy..just tattos and piercings and my motorcycle riding jacket has a huge pentigram and an upside down cross.. just being an angry teenager and twenty year old... ive calmed down in my 30s'. I moved out when I was 16 years old. I kept going to highschool, had an apartment and a live in girlfriend and used drugs (LSD was my fav) and I did it every weekend and tons of it at a time ,and drank a fifth of beam or jager or bacardi 151, and had a full time job.. ive grown up a lot since then, but ive been surviving, not thriving and only growing slowly, but I have been growing. my father was a workaholic, working 16-18 hrs a day, and it was swing shift so we never saw him.. when he was home he would make us work.it didn?t matter if it was moving a huge pile 0f hay and sweeping underneath it and then moving it back, or digging a hole and then filling it in.. when dad was home there was no playing and no fun. for as long as I remmeber he has told me I was worthless and when one of my siblings got out of line, he said "do you want to turn out like lee" I got straight A's while living at home, but once I moved out, that went down.. my dad molested my sister until she was 14-16 ish. I don?t remember most of my childhood or any abuse, but my sister remembers everything and says I was abused horribly and I have yet to be able to ask her what she saw... my mother was weak and showed no emotion and enabled everything. I am a father of a super sweet, bright and kind teen..she is 13 and im 32, so I had her pretty early.. ive been in her life since she was born, pay my support and take her any time I can get her. at the least that is every other weekend .. I tell her I love her and hug and touch her (in a good way, I don?t like to be touched, and I didn?t want her to have issues with touching, and that has helped me too). I tell her the truth and she isnt scared to talk to me.. ive never hit her other than some spankings she got when she ran in the road, put a knife in the electric outlet, and such... im not a perfect father, and don?t claim to be, but I love her and I show it. I know that I need to forgive my father and mother so that it doesn?t affect me anymore, ive been able to let some of it go... we ruined his grave stone right after he died.. I do have a lot of hurt and anger that I need to deal with.. ive gone to therapy for a long time, but I went while I was still getting high and was drinking so it really didn?t do much good then. now I can remember some of the stuff I learned and put it to use.... btw, I got my buddy down here to give me some suboxone so that even if I broke down and used (I DIDN?T), it wont do anything, and ive calmed down a lot... thanks everyone for taking the time to say something.. I know I have people that love me, and support me and I really appreciate you guys and them.. k,ive got to work another half hour and then im getting ready to go see the nightmare before christmas in 3-D!!! a hot shower and a movie... a nice ending to a horrible day...... the not being a junky today love, junkboy specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Brady To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. I loved my father very, very deeply. I can imagine why a person might not, if that father was abusive, absent, etc. Let me tell you some of the reasons why I loved my father: 1) My father took the time to explain to me anything I ever had a question about, and when I got old enough to have questions he couldn't answer, he bought be a complete encyclopedia brittanica, and my thirst for knowledge was something I could then slake. I'd like to thank my mother for teaching me to read, which she spent a lot of time and effort on, with books that were fun for me, and who always bought be a book whenever I wanted one, although she didn't buy me many toys. 2) My father was an incredibly busy man (he was a doctor on call with the emergency room, as well as having his own private practice, and a member of several community organizations), but because his sons were important to him, he became the Scoutmaster of our local Cub Scout troop, and when we got older, became the Scoutmaster of our local BoyScout troop, and made sure to take us, and dozens of others scouts on camping trips to beautiful, remote locations where we learned to canoe, put up tents, create a fire, survive on local flora, identify poisons, and learned first aid and citizenship. 3) My father identified that I was a bright kid who wasn't being challenged in school, and sent me to college two years early after campaigning with them that I could handle the work, getting me an interview, and making sure they saw my SAT scores. Because of that experience, I didn't become a drop-out, when I hated high-school, and instead became a lifelong student, connected to dozens of people who have made it possible for me to get jobs I wasn't otherwise qualified for, but COULD DO, not to mention putting me in a place where I met the love of my life, who bore me two incredible children that I love with all my heart, and can never be half the father my father was to me, to them. 4) My father reached out, and became a member of a group called "Doctors Without Borders", and in so doing, met a man from Columbia who was a medical doctor, but whose family was under constant threat due to their outspoken disagreements with the way the Columbian government knelt to drug cartels. Rather than turning away from this problem he couldn't hope to solve as an individual, my father offered to sponsor the citizenship of this man, and paid for his travel and cosigned the loans necessary to get this man a home for his five children and his wife. Seven years later, this man was a full citizen of the USA, and credits his SURVIVAL to my father's efforts. 5) My father became a doctor because he wanted to help people, and though he sometimes got lost in the money, he never lost that purpose. Many people couldn't afford to pay his fees, but could afford to barter what they did have, and my father made exceptions for these people. He accepted CHICKENS in payment for lifesaving medications. He accepted having his lawn mowed by a landscaper in exchange for a lifetime of free medical care for him and his children. He had a huge heart, and gave generously to local libraries and schools. 6) When I went astray, my father didn't ignore it, he didn't hurt me, and most importantly, he didn't compromise his values. He bought me a tent, and told me I would be welcome under his roof when I stopped doing things that were against the law and brought me into trouble with the police. I hated him for that, at the time, but I'm very glad he did it now, as I realized I was responsible for my future fate, rather than relying on my parents or anyone else to bail me out. 7) When I was getting beat up in school for being a bookworm, my father didn't sue the school, didn't say anything to the other families, but instead took me aside and taught me the facts of life. It ain't fair. Bigger kids pick on littler kids. Groups of people who have low self-esteem will act, in groups, to try to tear down people who try to achieve, or who aren't part of their group. You cannot rely on anyone to protect you: the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. So he then bought me a membership in a local gymn, and drove me to it and from it so that I could bulk up, while also getting me classes in Judo, and bought me a punching bag, and taught me the basics of pugilism and wrestling, which he'd learned in college. Within about six months, there wasn't a bully in the school who wanted to tangle with me, my popularity increased (man, you kicked "Ed's" ass? you're the man!), even though I still took some beatings, I gave as good as I got, and it stopped. Teasing and ribbing became good-natured instead of mean-spirited. Girls started to pay attention to me, because I stood up for myself, and for littler kids. I could go on and on. He taught me manners. He taught me how to treat a lady. He taught me how to handle money, and it's relative value in life. To this day, when I'm in my home town, people still treat me with extra respect because I am his son, even though he died ten years ago. I loved my father. I didn't like him. We were not friends. He was emotionally cold, distant, authoritarian, merciless and a disciplinarian. I respected him, I loved him, and I think the world has LOST something because he is dead. But I haven't lost that thing, because I knew him, I know his mind, I understand the values he taught me, and I'll carry his wisdom with me forever. I wish you forgiveness for your father. We are not all blessed with these kinds of fathers that I had. I haven't been any sort of father to my own children to my eternal shame. When you are a father, yourself, perhaps you'll understand your own father better. Perhaps he really was a bad man, in his actions, and in his thoughts. In my opinion, though, such people are almost always themselves the lifelong victims of abuse and poor fortune. Forgiveness gets you over their wrongdoings. I wish you peace. BTW, despite all of this respect and love talk, he did hit me, he did inculcate me with racist values that were hard to root out, and he did drink too much. On his birthday, when I'm in my hometown, I get drunk, go to his grave, and pour a bottle of Cutty Sark on his grave, and I might even dance and piss on it sometimes. No man is perfect, but that doesn't mean they aren't lovable. Wrong Reverend Kevin G. Brady (415) 341-0022 (H) gomorrhan at hotmail.com www.myspace.com/clear_objectives -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:55:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. nobody super close to me has died lately... if you liked your father, im sorry for your loss... I don?t mean to be flip, but when my dad died Imy sister and I got a chisel and cut his name off of his grave stone. granite is damn hard.. it took hours...... its hard for me to imagine anyone who likes their father.... thanks jnky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Shriver To: 'The Ibogaine List' Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. Did anybody die? Because I just found out a few hours ago that my dad did. I don't mean to be flip or to discount your troubles because they certainly sound real. But maybe this will help your perspective a little? Matt ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of LEE Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:17 PM To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. k, I feel a little better. not much,but some...... junky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: LEE To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. today has to be the worst day in a long time... ive been cleaning my fucking yard up.. I spent quite a bit of time and money putting a fence up so the city cant see all my motorcycles (over 100) now the decided that I cant have that so I have 30 days to get rid of all of them and that's how I make my living. im just planning on tearing all the bikes down to the engine and parts and putting them in a storage unit and throwing the frames away, but they said if I don't have it done in 60 days they will sentence me to jail for 180 days,for a god damn yard that has too many motorcycles that you cant see unless you tresspass on my private road and climb up and take pictures over my solid tin fence that you cant see a fucking thing through from a public street..... grrrrrr......... I have so much to do and im sooooo overwhelemed....I want to get high...... fuck....... im doing my best to stay the hell away from anything, or if I can hold one till tonight, my buddy will hit me up with a suboxone so that even if I take something,it wont do anything......... FUCK, FUCK, FUCK....... im going to register some fucking ugly bikes and park them on my porch when im done with this..... im talking the worst of the worst I can make fire up..ripped seats, rusty. FUCK junky monkey fuck fuck fuck........ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. Play Now! -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/1e421fc4/attachment-0001.htm From Matt at ITSupport.net Thu Nov 1 13:48:56 2007 From: Matt at ITSupport.net (Matthew Shriver) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:48:56 -0600 Subject: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine (antidepressants) In-Reply-To: References: <4c90d90710281034i37cc6ef7re13749617f02085e@mail.gmail.com> <006501c81b00$ecb9f920$43cbb941@barbarao0mvuzh> Message-ID: <011601c81caf$79e7d470$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> Before I used heroin to get off of alcohol I was suicidally depressed for years. In fact I was hospitalized for suicide attempts at least three times that I can think of off hand. Later, even when my heroin addiction destroyed my life to a much greater extant than alcohol ever did (in terms of money, relationships, criminal behavior, a place to live, a job, etc.) even then I wasn't suicidal. I was either in withdrawal and too sick (and obsessed with getting a fix) to seriously contemplate suicide or I was fixed and didn't much care that my life was turning to shit. But methadone was different for me. I was very depressed on methadone pretty much continually. Suicide seemed like more effort than it was worth most of the time but I certainly spent much, much, more time contemplating it on methadone than I ever did on heroin. I spent some time on zoloft and I remember those nasty electrical zaps coming off. I also remember some pretty emotionally heavy withdrawals from paxil when I got off of that stuff. I sometimes wonder about the chicken and the egg thing with depression for me. I remember being super unhappy as a child before I ever touched any substances. But how much has my substance abuse since then contributed to my depressive tendencies as an adult I wonder? Is my brain really chemically imbalanced and if so, is it of biological origin or did I create it with drug use? Now days though, I can't even hardly pretend that the feel good effect of heroin would be worth the backside shit storm that would ensue. I have no illusion that I could use it when I wanted and put it down in between. And I have no desire to get any repeats of the life lessons it provided. Matt _____ From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Gustina Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:27 AM To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine (antidepressants) I agree morphine has antidepressnat qualities. Fourteen years of trying to get off antidepressants unsuccessfully. Explain. Were you addicted to the anti-depressants, and, if so, what were they? Sure. The doctors never called it an addiction, instead a dependence. Because I was not likely to break the law if I can't get ahold of Zoloft. Sounds funny but if it was illegal who knows.... I had a real hard time when I tried to go off them, physically. Ibogaine stopped it for a couple days. Very grateful. Especially to the people on the list that helped me off list and made it an easier journey. Peace _____ From: elgrekkko at carolina.rr.com To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:26:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine > 1. Why did you decide to take ibogaine? > Fourteen years of trying to get off antidepressants unsuccessfully. Explain. Were you addicted to the anti-depressants, and, if so, what were they? I've always considered morphine, itself, to have anti-depressant properties. christopher cadden _____ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! Try now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/952e0d3e/attachment.htm From JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM Thu Nov 1 14:03:32 2007 From: JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM (LEE) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:03:32 -0600 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> <003101c81cad$70d24ed0$6400a8c0@INNOCOUS> Message-ID: Xristine, that point is a very valid point. thanks for pointing it out. I was wallowing in some self pity yesterday. I feel better today and see that its not that big of a deal... and yes, due to my childhood and things, I know for a fact I can rely on myself to do anything, I can figure anything out and im very strong. there are some good things that come from the way I was brought up and im a much stronger and self reliant person than maybe someone else in a different situation. I know that Im (kind of) glad that the stuff that happned to me didn?t happen to my brothers, as I feel I was strong enough to deal with it. there is still problems I have, but I am working on it and like you said, there is nothing on earth that I cant do if I put my mind to it. also I have a huge tolerance to physical pain.. now mental pain... that hurts and I don?t like confrontation, but im off subject.... just to relate this to ibogaine and drug use and p.k. dick, I took some suboxone instead of getting high just in case I caved, but I DIDN?T!!! so I am proud about that.... thanks for taking the time to say something.... much love, el mr, Im not really a junky, but it?s a comfortable place that I don?t like to be... lol specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: xristine To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. I would like to help you turn at least one memory of your childhood into a proud one. The work that your father insisted be a substitute for family life is something that you got the best out of. Look at you today, I for one know how amazing it is for a solid job and work attitude can be to maintain when cursed with a lot of sneaky addictions always ready to raise their voices and demand attention. Sometimes the routines of working get old and we get restless, but at least you know where to go and what to do, that's more than lots of folks with this problems. Don't be late now! Okay that's it for me today. I go back to my observation deck until I work up the nerve to tackle the real topic. Xristine ----- Original Message ----- From: LEE To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. kevin, it sounds like you had someone special to help you become a good man and a good person. its hard for me to understand that people can like their parents, its just something that is really hard for me to grasp. I wish to god that I had a parent or even a mentor or someone I could look up to. I didn?t have time growing up and I was pretty filled with hate, but I was still a good guy..just tattos and piercings and my motorcycle riding jacket has a huge pentigram and an upside down cross.. just being an angry teenager and twenty year old... ive calmed down in my 30s'. I moved out when I was 16 years old. I kept going to highschool, had an apartment and a live in girlfriend and used drugs (LSD was my fav) and I did it every weekend and tons of it at a time ,and drank a fifth of beam or jager or bacardi 151, and had a full time job.. ive grown up a lot since then, but ive been surviving, not thriving and only growing slowly, but I have been growing. my father was a workaholic, working 16-18 hrs a day, and it was swing shift so we never saw him.. when he was home he would make us work.it didn?t matter if it was moving a huge pile 0f hay and sweeping underneath it and then moving it back, or digging a hole and then filling it in.. when dad was home there was no playing and no fun. for as long as I remmeber he has told me I was worthless and when one of my siblings got out of line, he said "do you want to turn out like lee" I got straight A's while living at home, but once I moved out, that went down.. my dad molested my sister until she was 14-16 ish. I don?t remember most of my childhood or any abuse, but my sister remembers everything and says I was abused horribly and I have yet to be able to ask her what she saw... my mother was weak and showed no emotion and enabled everything. I am a father of a super sweet, bright and kind teen..she is 13 and im 32, so I had her pretty early.. ive been in her life since she was born, pay my support and take her any time I can get her. at the least that is every other weekend .. I tell her I love her and hug and touch her (in a good way, I don?t like to be touched, and I didn?t want her to have issues with touching, and that has helped me too). I tell her the truth and she isnt scared to talk to me.. ive never hit her other than some spankings she got when she ran in the road, put a knife in the electric outlet, and such... im not a perfect father, and don?t claim to be, but I love her and I show it. I know that I need to forgive my father and mother so that it doesn?t affect me anymore, ive been able to let some of it go... we ruined his grave stone right after he died.. I do have a lot of hurt and anger that I need to deal with.. ive gone to therapy for a long time, but I went while I was still getting high and was drinking so it really didn?t do much good then. now I can remember some of the stuff I learned and put it to use.... btw, I got my buddy down here to give me some suboxone so that even if I broke down and used (I DIDN?T), it wont do anything, and ive calmed down a lot... thanks everyone for taking the time to say something.. I know I have people that love me, and support me and I really appreciate you guys and them.. k,ive got to work another half hour and then im getting ready to go see the nightmare before christmas in 3-D!!! a hot shower and a movie... a nice ending to a horrible day...... the not being a junky today love, junkboy specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Brady To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. I loved my father very, very deeply. I can imagine why a person might not, if that father was abusive, absent, etc. Let me tell you some of the reasons why I loved my father: 1) My father took the time to explain to me anything I ever had a question about, and when I got old enough to have questions he couldn't answer, he bought be a complete encyclopedia brittanica, and my thirst for knowledge was something I could then slake. I'd like to thank my mother for teaching me to read, which she spent a lot of time and effort on, with books that were fun for me, and who always bought be a book whenever I wanted one, although she didn't buy me many toys. 2) My father was an incredibly busy man (he was a doctor on call with the emergency room, as well as having his own private practice, and a member of several community organizations), but because his sons were important to him, he became the Scoutmaster of our local Cub Scout troop, and when we got older, became the Scoutmaster of our local BoyScout troop, and made sure to take us, and dozens of others scouts on camping trips to beautiful, remote locations where we learned to canoe, put up tents, create a fire, survive on local flora, identify poisons, and learned first aid and citizenship. 3) My father identified that I was a bright kid who wasn't being challenged in school, and sent me to college two years early after campaigning with them that I could handle the work, getting me an interview, and making sure they saw my SAT scores. Because of that experience, I didn't become a drop-out, when I hated high-school, and instead became a lifelong student, connected to dozens of people who have made it possible for me to get jobs I wasn't otherwise qualified for, but COULD DO, not to mention putting me in a place where I met the love of my life, who bore me two incredible children that I love with all my heart, and can never be half the father my father was to me, to them. 4) My father reached out, and became a member of a group called "Doctors Without Borders", and in so doing, met a man from Columbia who was a medical doctor, but whose family was under constant threat due to their outspoken disagreements with the way the Columbian government knelt to drug cartels. Rather than turning away from this problem he couldn't hope to solve as an individual, my father offered to sponsor the citizenship of this man, and paid for his travel and cosigned the loans necessary to get this man a home for his five children and his wife. Seven years later, this man was a full citizen of the USA, and credits his SURVIVAL to my father's efforts. 5) My father became a doctor because he wanted to help people, and though he sometimes got lost in the money, he never lost that purpose. Many people couldn't afford to pay his fees, but could afford to barter what they did have, and my father made exceptions for these people. He accepted CHICKENS in payment for lifesaving medications. He accepted having his lawn mowed by a landscaper in exchange for a lifetime of free medical care for him and his children. He had a huge heart, and gave generously to local libraries and schools. 6) When I went astray, my father didn't ignore it, he didn't hurt me, and most importantly, he didn't compromise his values. He bought me a tent, and told me I would be welcome under his roof when I stopped doing things that were against the law and brought me into trouble with the police. I hated him for that, at the time, but I'm very glad he did it now, as I realized I was responsible for my future fate, rather than relying on my parents or anyone else to bail me out. 7) When I was getting beat up in school for being a bookworm, my father didn't sue the school, didn't say anything to the other families, but instead took me aside and taught me the facts of life. It ain't fair. Bigger kids pick on littler kids. Groups of people who have low self-esteem will act, in groups, to try to tear down people who try to achieve, or who aren't part of their group. You cannot rely on anyone to protect you: the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. So he then bought me a membership in a local gymn, and drove me to it and from it so that I could bulk up, while also getting me classes in Judo, and bought me a punching bag, and taught me the basics of pugilism and wrestling, which he'd learned in college. Within about six months, there wasn't a bully in the school who wanted to tangle with me, my popularity increased (man, you kicked "Ed's" ass? you're the man!), even though I still took some beatings, I gave as good as I got, and it stopped. Teasing and ribbing became good-natured instead of mean-spirited. Girls started to pay attention to me, because I stood up for myself, and for littler kids. I could go on and on. He taught me manners. He taught me how to treat a lady. He taught me how to handle money, and it's relative value in life. To this day, when I'm in my home town, people still treat me with extra respect because I am his son, even though he died ten years ago. I loved my father. I didn't like him. We were not friends. He was emotionally cold, distant, authoritarian, merciless and a disciplinarian. I respected him, I loved him, and I think the world has LOST something because he is dead. But I haven't lost that thing, because I knew him, I know his mind, I understand the values he taught me, and I'll carry his wisdom with me forever. I wish you forgiveness for your father. We are not all blessed with these kinds of fathers that I had. I haven't been any sort of father to my own children to my eternal shame. When you are a father, yourself, perhaps you'll understand your own father better. Perhaps he really was a bad man, in his actions, and in his thoughts. In my opinion, though, such people are almost always themselves the lifelong victims of abuse and poor fortune. Forgiveness gets you over their wrongdoings. I wish you peace. BTW, despite all of this respect and love talk, he did hit me, he did inculcate me with racist values that were hard to root out, and he did drink too much. On his birthday, when I'm in my hometown, I get drunk, go to his grave, and pour a bottle of Cutty Sark on his grave, and I might even dance and piss on it sometimes. No man is perfect, but that doesn't mean they aren't lovable. Wrong Reverend Kevin G. Brady (415) 341-0022 (H) gomorrhan at hotmail.com www.myspace.com/clear_objectives ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:55:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. nobody super close to me has died lately... if you liked your father, im sorry for your loss... I don?t mean to be flip, but when my dad died Imy sister and I got a chisel and cut his name off of his grave stone. granite is damn hard.. it took hours...... its hard for me to imagine anyone who likes their father.... thanks jnky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Shriver To: 'The Ibogaine List' Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. Did anybody die? Because I just found out a few hours ago that my dad did. I don't mean to be flip or to discount your troubles because they certainly sound real. But maybe this will help your perspective a little? Matt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of LEE Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:17 PM To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. k, I feel a little better. not much,but some...... junky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: LEE To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. today has to be the worst day in a long time... ive been cleaning my fucking yard up.. I spent quite a bit of time and money putting a fence up so the city cant see all my motorcycles (over 100) now the decided that I cant have that so I have 30 days to get rid of all of them and that's how I make my living. im just planning on tearing all the bikes down to the engine and parts and putting them in a storage unit and throwing the frames away, but they said if I don't have it done in 60 days they will sentence me to jail for 180 days,for a god damn yard that has too many motorcycles that you cant see unless you tresspass on my private road and climb up and take pictures over my solid tin fence that you cant see a fucking thing through from a public street..... grrrrrr......... I have so much to do and im sooooo overwhelemed....I want to get high...... fuck....... im doing my best to stay the hell away from anything, or if I can hold one till tonight, my buddy will hit me up with a suboxone so that even if I take something,it wont do anything......... FUCK, FUCK, FUCK....... im going to register some fucking ugly bikes and park them on my porch when im done with this..... im talking the worst of the worst I can make fire up..ripped seats, rusty. FUCK junky monkey fuck fuck fuck........ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. Play Now! -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/9ba043f7/attachment-0001.htm From gomorrhan at hotmail.com Thu Nov 1 15:31:05 2007 From: gomorrhan at hotmail.com (Kevin Brady) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:31:05 -0700 Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine as intervention: Talking Cure as Solution during 3-month window In-Reply-To: <011601c81caf$79e7d470$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> References: <4c90d90710281034i37cc6ef7re13749617f02085e@mail.gmail.com> <006501c81b00$ecb9f920$43cbb941@barbarao0mvuzh> <011601c81caf$79e7d470$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> Message-ID: Suicidal depression, obviously, is extremely difficult to wrestle with. My hat's off to you for surviving it to this point. Personally, while I consider antidepressants to be life-saving temporary interventions, I also consider them just that: temporary. When a person is on them for a very long time, I think there has been an error in treatment. While there is no doubt in my mind that there is a genetic and cultural (familial/gang/clan) predisposition that plays a very serious and early role, I don't think that antidepressants do anything but stave off an urge FOR A WHILE. I've known people who were suicidal while on the anti-depressants. Emotionally, they felt fine, but cognitively, they still thought of themselves as harmful or as worthless and hopeless. This was distinct to FEELING that way, they seriously thought this was the case. Where this is the case, I think that anti-depressants are the wrong route to take. In these cases, cognitive restructuring is required. Feelings are imprinted through experience, and can be changed with drug-therapies, but the way we think and look at ourselves is another matter, and explains why long-term depression continues, even in people whose emotional affect has been manipulated by SSRIs or tricyclics. The best case scenario, IMO, for people with the additional complication of chemical dependencies/addictions would be drying out (Ibogaine assisted where that was called for), followed by anti-depressants for those with continuing depression issues, and then supplemented with proven methods for handling depression "talking cure" style. Depression is often (but not always) a symptom of PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), experienced by war veteran's, abuse victims, car crash participants, perpetrators of all stripes, witnesses of horrible incidents, etc. PTSD has been found to be highly treatable with a few different methods. Primary amongst these are what have come to be known as "power therapies": 1) V/KD 2) EMDR 3) TIR 4) EFT/TFT REF: http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/v6i2/v6i2a5.htm Amongst these, TIR is the most accessible and easy to acclimatize to for most persons, because it is similar to other talking cures, except that the session length is unlimited, and the sessions are done "to result", rather than set by "50 minute hours". Where a person's depression is a result or symptom of PTSD (which could start as early as the very first time a person was traumatized: i.e., birth, but typically doesn't activate until a later incident triggers those circumstances [Pavlov's secondary cues]), I consider the most effective and comfortable solution to be TIR (Traumatic Incident Reduction). A person can learn this technique in as little as four days, and if two people who are in recovery learn it together, they can then do all the work with each other, and not have to pay a specialist high rates, or wait on their schedules to accommodate them. For those of you in the three month window, and looking for help, I strongly suggest that you arrange to get trained in this method (I will train you at no cost if you are in the bay area), and work together to prevent relapse by addressing the core psychological issues while you have the complicating drug factors out of the picture. For a list of training workshops offered worldwide, look at http://www.tirtraining.org/training/calendar.htm These workshops are typically offered to psychologists and social workers, but you can arrange with the trainers to specifically set up specialized training for "lay persons" and "recovering addicts". I've spoken with my colleague, Teresa Descilo, who operates a center in Miami called "Victims Services Center", and she is interested in helping this population. I know that there is Ibogaine research going on in that area, and Teresa has worked with the person organizing that research in the past, so she is not unfamiliar with this area. Best of luck to all of you. It is possible to overcome the addiction, as you know, and using TIR or other cognitive flooding techniques (but ideally TIR, since it is so simple), it is possible to address the root causes of the desire to use chemicals which may have formed at a very young age. It's not just "hope", people. There is research to show very positive outcomes in a very large percentage of those who actively try and are interested in improving their lot in life, rather than remaining "in the system". It's up to you to make it happen, but I'm here to help, and so is Teresa. Check her center out at www.vscmiami.org Much love Kevin G. Brady(415) 341-0022 (H)gomorrhan at hotmail.comwww.myspace.com/clear_objectives From: Matt at ITSupport.netTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comDate: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:48:56 -0600Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine (antidepressants) Before I used heroin to get off of alcohol I was suicidally depressed for years. In fact I was hospitalized for suicide attempts at least three times that I can think of off hand. Later, even when my heroin addiction destroyed my life to a much greater extant than alcohol ever did (in terms of money, relationships, criminal behavior, a place to live, a job, etc?) even then I wasn?t suicidal. I was either in withdrawal and too sick (and obsessed with getting a fix) to seriously contemplate suicide or I was fixed and didn?t much care that my life was turning to shit. But methadone was different for me. I was very depressed on methadone pretty much continually. Suicide seemed like more effort than it was worth most of the time but I certainly spent much, much, more time contemplating it on methadone than I ever did on heroin. I spent some time on zoloft and I remember those nasty electrical zaps coming off. I also remember some pretty emotionally heavy withdrawals from paxil when I got off of that stuff. I sometimes wonder about the chicken and the egg thing with depression for me. I remember being super unhappy as a child before I ever touched any substances. But how much has my substance abuse since then contributed to my depressive tendencies as an adult I wonder? Is my brain really chemically imbalanced and if so, is it of biological origin or did I create it with drug use? Now days though, I can?t even hardly pretend that the feel good effect of heroin would be worth the backside shit storm that would ensue. I have no illusion that I could use it when I wanted and put it down in between. And I have no desire to get any repeats of the life lessons it provided. Matt From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of Kevin GustinaSent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:27 AMTo: The Ibogaine ListSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine (antidepressants) I agree morphine has antidepressnat qualities. Fourteen years of trying to get off antidepressants unsuccessfully. Explain. Were you addicted to the anti-depressants, and, if so, what were they? Sure. The doctors never called it an addiction, instead a dependence. Because I was not likely to break the law if I can't get ahold of Zoloft. Sounds funny but if it was illegal who knows....I had a real hard time when I tried to go off them, physically. Ibogaine stopped it for a couple days. Very grateful. Especially to the people on the list that helped me off list and made it an easier journey. Peace From: elgrekkko at carolina.rr.comTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comDate: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:26:55 -0400Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why did you take ibogaine > 1. Why did you decide to take ibogaine?> Fourteen years of trying to get off antidepressants unsuccessfully. Explain. Were you addicted to the anti-depressants, and, if so, what were they? I've always considered morphine, itself, to have anti-depressant properties. christophercadden Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! Try now! _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/445f12d2/attachment.htm From jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk Thu Nov 1 15:58:05 2007 From: jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk (Paul Brookshaw) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 19:58:05 +0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. In-Reply-To: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> Message-ID: Hey Lee';' Strip the bikes, an weigh in the frames an wheels, play there fuckin game, they are assholes' Remember though you are blessed with something they can never attain' You have your freeom from being blind to bullshit' Be blessed Lee' Motamba' nangona' From: Matt at ITSupport.netTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comDate: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:25:24 -0600Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. Did anybody die? Because I just found out a few hours ago that my dad did. I don?t mean to be flip or to discount your troubles because they certainly sound real. But maybe this will help your perspective a little? Matt From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of LEESent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:17 PMTo: The Ibogaine ListSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. k, I feel a little better. not much,but some...... junky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: LEE To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. today has to be the worst day in a long time... ive been cleaning my fucking yard up.. I spent quite a bit of time and money putting a fence up so the city cant see all my motorcycles (over 100) now the decided that I cant have that so I have 30 days to get rid of all of them and that's how I make my living. im just planning on tearing all the bikes down to the engine and parts and putting them in a storage unit and throwing the frames away, but they said if I don't have it done in 60 days they will sentence me to jail for 180 days,for a god damn yard that has too many motorcycles that you cant see unless you tresspass on my private road and climb up and take pictures over my solid tin fence that you cant see a fucking thing through from a public street..... grrrrrr......... I have so much to do and im sooooo overwhelemed....I want to get high...... fuck....... im doing my best to stay the hell away from anything, or if I can hold one till tonight, my buddy will hit me up with a suboxone so that even if I take something,it wont do anything......... FUCK, FUCK, FUCK....... im going to register some fucking ugly bikes and park them on my porch when im done with this..... im talking the worst of the worst I can make fire up..ripped seats, rusty. FUCK junky monkey fuck fuck fuck........ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting ? Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/48555477/attachment-0001.htm From jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk Thu Nov 1 16:34:37 2007 From: jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk (Paul Brookshaw) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:34:37 +0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] The problem is ----- > Message-ID: The problem is the assiciation with DRUGS' DRUG orrentated. I life full of seeking and fulfilling' DRUGS' The education of the anchoring is wrong' Like if you pay a healer for healing and you believe for of whatever reason the healing didn't work' You can "ClAIM" because you paid an extortionate amount of "Money" "I GOT RIPPED OFF" The same as of when you wher used' and using' To trancsend ones past and build one future takes time blood sweat and tears' Of which we all have of being exactly the same' Other than running different programs' Desire is just that' All' But to seek of something you can not see, but only feel is misderected' Life must be but a dream because we live in projections and pat rememberances more than we live in the now' My dead ancestors confure that there is more to life than this mortal existence' Did you ever feel the wind' within closed doors and feel the rush of hightened sel. Looking everyway at once whilst you expand mighily' for maybe 40 seconds and then come back and go "Er wow' What was that' Or maybe not maybe you held this vibation and felt oa all of the whole' a oneness of self belonging to everything' a oneness of self that expands all physical restraints an becoms the sky, the field, the Sea, everythihgnall at onece and know and see that all is connected all is enrgies percieved as a string from creation until reath All the same' I hear wispers of "Blessings" "We are all the same' >From life to death we struggle' We see' Much' We learn' Of what we wish to learn. Guidance is required here' Tatas of houses of spirit must guide through self experience Ibogaine is not an instant cure' you need to do the work with pure truthful self intent' She will guide you away from your pains' She will teach you of self expession without desire' Desire' to' Is of what the seeker seeks' "Desire of" "Desire to fulfill that of which is attainable within one s own true sight" Should be the key' Sects of so called original sources gaurd their secrets, because of, they do not want you to know of the truth, Their truth' i - Duma' For these that can see' Is not of what those that know would want us to believe of' Original source' we all have' We are all decendants from the original' For some sect to clain i - Duma ' over the rest of mankind is arrogance' Gaurd your secrets well is of what is taught' I claim "FEAR" To share of what one knows allows the teacher to transcen an learn of teaching learnig' And learning of brings understanding of all To gaurd secrets is ure "FEAR" No appologies here folks' Of whatfolks use for to gain succer' They say is secret because they fear to lose their bread an butter' Hah ha ha hahaha Grow your own and share with all then you may not starve' Be well one and all' Salt and most importantly Love' and Light' eternal' Motamba' nangona' _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live Hotmail http://www.newhotmail.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/fa804f31/attachment.htm From JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM Thu Nov 1 17:07:44 2007 From: JUNKBOY64 at MSN.COM (LEE) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:07:44 -0600 Subject: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. References: <006901c81c04$8cc92ae0$3201a8c0@bluefiashly> Message-ID: thanks tons... im just stripping down two bikes a day.. putting one in storage put on ebay when I have time and another that I tear all the way down and list it on ebay.. so ill be listing one bike a day on ebay and putting one bike into storage.. I have approx 100 motorcycles where they are bitching, so I think I can get it done in 60 days as long as I apply myself and work hard... YES, I do have my freedom from the insanity that is so abundant... im glad that I have actual street smarts and learning... once you have to fend for yourself in downtown portland hanging out at the E street caf? and selling speed to 14 yo's that are hooking down the road and getting shot at and such, you are able to see things from a different place than a lot of people on this earth... I know they are just inforcing a law and that I must comply as I don?t have the unlimited finances that they do, so ill play by their rules. last time I got fired from my job, (I was stealing Natures Sunshine DNA Repair Cr?me & it sells for 98$ a bottle & selling them on the net) I got cleaned up, found a good place to live and started my business... now I work for myself and the horrible expierence of going to jail, stealing from an employeer, loosing my house and such was such a great move for me.... so im sure something good will come out of this.... maybe Ill meet someone that can help my business grow and thrive. I have the skills to make a great business, but I lack all financial knowledge..... lee specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Brookshaw To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. Hey Lee';' Strip the bikes, an weigh in the frames an wheels, play there fuckin game, they are assholes' Remember though you are blessed with something they can never attain' You have your freeom from being blind to bullshit' Be blessed Lee' Motamba' nangona' ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt at ITSupport.net To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:25:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. Did anybody die? Because I just found out a few hours ago that my dad did. I don?t mean to be flip or to discount your troubles because they certainly sound real. But maybe this will help your perspective a little? Matt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of LEE Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:17 PM To: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting ..be careful, anger............. k, I feel a little better. not much,but some...... junky specializing in honda and yamaha motorcycle parts 1960-1989. if you need anything call or email, we can get any part you need. new, and used, even if the part is obsolete. if someone you love is addicted to something (heroin, cocaine, meth, ect), google ibogaine.... its worth your time..... i promise.... ----- Original Message ----- From: LEE To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ranting .be careful, anger............. today has to be the worst day in a long time... ive been cleaning my fucking yard up.. I spent quite a bit of time and money putting a fence up so the city cant see all my motorcycles (over 100) now the decided that I cant have that so I have 30 days to get rid of all of them and that's how I make my living. im just planning on tearing all the bikes down to the engine and parts and putting them in a storage unit and throwing the frames away, but they said if I don't have it done in 60 days they will sentence me to jail for 180 days,for a god damn yard that has too many motorcycles that you cant see unless you tresspass on my private road and climb up and take pictures over my solid tin fence that you cant see a fucking thing through from a public street..... grrrrrr......... I have so much to do and im sooooo overwhelemed....I want to get high...... fuck....... im doing my best to stay the hell away from anything, or if I can hold one till tonight, my buddy will hit me up with a suboxone so that even if I take something,it wont do anything......... FUCK, FUCK, FUCK....... im going to register some fucking ugly bikes and park them on my porch when im done with this..... im talking the worst of the worst I can make fire up..ripped seats, rusty. FUCK junky monkey fuck fuck fuck........ -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free emoticon packs and customisation from Windows Live. Pimp My Live! -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=- (][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/faccba6e/attachment-0001.htm From simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 1 17:19:41 2007 From: simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk (simon loxton) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 21:19:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Ibogaine] The problem is ----- > Message-ID: <451739.80378.qm@web27614.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> And to some it would be like giving nuts to a man without teeth. ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Brookshaw To: ibogaine at mindvox.com Sent: Thursday, 1 November, 2007 10:34:37 PM Subject: [Ibogaine] The problem is ----- > The problem is the assiciation with DRUGS' DRUG orrentated. I life full of seeking and fulfilling' DRUGS' The education of the anchoring is wrong' Like if you pay a healer for healing and you believe for of whatever reason the healing didn't work' You can "ClAIM" because you paid an extortionate amount of "Money" "I GOT RIPPED OFF" The same as of when you wher used' and using' To trancsend ones past and build one future takes time blood sweat and tears' Of which we all have of being exactly the same' Other than running different programs' Desire is just that' All' But to seek of something you can not see, but only feel is misderected' Life must be but a dream because we live in projections and pat rememberances more than we live in the now' My dead ancestors confure that there is more to life than this mortal existence' Did you ever feel the wind' within closed doors and feel the rush of hightened sel. Looking everyway at once whilst you expand mighily' for maybe 40 seconds and then come back and go "Er wow' What was that' Or maybe not maybe you held this vibation and felt oa all of the whole' a oneness of self belonging to everything' a oneness of self that expands all physical restraints an becoms the sky, the field, the Sea, everythihgnall at onece and know and see that all is connected all is enrgies percieved as a string from creation until reath All the same' I hear wispers of "Blessings" "We are all the same' >From life to death we struggle' We see' Much' We learn' Of what we wish to learn. Guidance is required here' Tatas of houses of spirit must guide through self experience Ibogaine is not an instant cure' you need to do the work with pure truthful self intent' She will guide you away from your pains' She will teach you of self expession without desire' Desire' to' Is of what the seeker seeks' "Desire of" "Desire to fulfill that of which is attainable within one s own true sight" Should be the key' Sects of so called original sources gaurd their secrets, because of, they do not want you to know of the truth, Their truth' i - Duma' For these that can see' Is not of what those that know would want us to believe of' Original source' we all have' We are all decendants from the original' For some sect to clain i - Duma ' over the rest of mankind is arrogance' Gaurd your secrets well is of what is taught' I claim "FEAR" To share of what one knows allows the teacher to transcen an learn of teaching learnig' And learning of brings understanding of all To gaurd secrets is ure "FEAR" No appologies here folks' Of whatfolks use for to gain succer' They say is secret because they fear to lose their bread an butter' Hah ha ha hahaha Grow your own and share with all then you may not starve' Be well one and all' Salt and most importantly Love' and Light' eternal' Motamba' nangona' Play Movie Mash-up and win BIG prizes! ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071101/69fdddcb/attachment.htm From jasenhappy at hotmail.com Thu Nov 1 20:04:45 2007 From: jasenhappy at hotmail.com (jasen chamoun) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 00:04:45 +0000 Subject: [Ibogaine] Alcohol In-Reply-To: <29d165a30710271015i43820524y88f935334c953a73@mail.gmail.com> References: <29d165a30710271015i43820524y88f935334c953a73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey Randy, There's nothing to forgive,..I can't see anything condescending in your message. Mate,..I understand what you mean about alcoholics should not drink for a week or preferably 2 before treatment however as we all know this is difficult for anyone that has an addiction to do. One person I know, had a treatment for alcohol, they weren't day time drinkers however when they got home from work they would drink a bottle to a bottle and a half of red wine every night and sometimes more on Fridays and Saturdays. They went without alcohol for 36 hours before treatment. They then had their treatment which was very rough, they stuggled for at least 2 hours of their journey. They did also have some pleasantries however very little and no loving afterglow. A few days later they started drinking again. The treatment did help however not as much as I expected. It will be interesting to see how a second treatment will affect them. I will keep you posted on the result. love, Jasen Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:15:28 -0400From: bicuitboy714 at gmail.comTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... Hey Jase, I kinda figured as much and forgive me if I sounded condescending or anything. I do the same thing and I pissed off Dimitri and Chris at the conference by asking questions to make my point. They weren't giving out the facts that I wanted to be heard. All they had to do was put me on the panel and I woulda just made my point and then made 'em laugh. LOL O well, I was being spanked at the time. I've "heard about" (he he) treatments for alcohol in conjunction with other drugs and I have a few idea's on this subject. Like Simon says (Simon says stand up, o yea where was I) alcohol is a bitch to kick. I know, I've done it. It's worse than heroin or oxy's, and right up there with methadone as far as suffering goes and longevity go. Seizures are the main concern in a hospital situation, and I would think that it definitely would be for anybody doing a treatment outside of a clinical setting. Sooo, I would like to see some research done along the lines of treating the seizure possibility while doing the Ibogaine treatment for the other drugs that are being treated for. Every alcoholic treatment that I have heard of had other drugs involved. Dilantin is one drug I initially thought of but I think it was Patrick that told me that Dilantin shouldn't be used with Ibogaine. I can't remember why other than Dilantin has side effects that are worsened with Ibogaine. Phenobarbital is the answer, or maybe librium. I would like to stay away from major benzo's like Zanax because I think if a person is high on zany's they will miss some of the beauty of the trip/treatment. I heard of a treatment where pheno barb was used and it went very smooth. No seizure activity or undo suffering for the client, and he had very good visions, some of which I still marvel at to this day. Laugh too. The thing about pheno barb is it is a very long acting barbiturate and it takes shit load to get high off of. Therefore it lasts a long time and the client isn't so whacked that he doesn't see or appreciate the visions. 50 to 100 mgs is enough to keep the seizure risk down most of the time as far as I could see. This dose would have to be given every 8 to 10 hours, maybe a little longer. I think it would be great if a doctor here on the list would give his or her opinion about this. I know from hearing first hand what happened but somebody more up on pharmacology could really help here. Where is Kammlett when we need him?? OOOO Patrick, hook us up with your knowledge. As far as needing more than one treatment because of alcohol, I think it is known that a lot of people need two treatments to really kick what they are strung out on. Not just alcohol. Maybe some really big boosters after the initial flood and for a week following would do it. The client could be informed of this and be ready for a longer treatment and pay a little more for the extra Ibogaine. I wish Ibo was free, but it just isn't. So, that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it until proven wrong or a better way is found. Alcohol is maybe the worse drug there is and it's legal............Go figure. I won't debate the reasons for this, but the government is involved, so there you have it. Peace Love and Purple Squirrels Randy On 10/26/07, jasen chamoun wrote: Hey Randy, Nice to hear from you my brother. I ask questions sometimes to get other peoples opinions even though I may alreadyhave my own idea, it's good to get other opinions. I recently had someone, a girl, who was quite big and on methadone, hence the question. With alcohol, I hear that 2 ibogaine sessions are necessary with about 1 month in between. Has this been peoples experience? There is a lot of conflicting information with alcohol and it would be good to have the lists opinion/experiences with treating for alcohol or being treated. 2 people that I know of had a single dose of ibogaine for alcohol and the urge to have a drink came back within a few days and they didn't experience an after glow. I understand that a second treament is nesscessary however I would love to hear from others with their experiences with alcohol. I also hear and have seen that people having ibogaine for alcohol have a very rough trip. So far this seems to be the case. Thanks for those who offered their opinions,..much appreciated. With love, Jasen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't realize it was you, Jasen my brother, asking this question. You know what I'm talking about as far as observation on the client is concerned. These kind of questions should be in a book. I can see it now..............The Ibogaine Treatment Primer............read at your own risk.......these facts are to be taken with 45 pounds of grains of salt.............we by no means are saying we know anything about this experimental treatment..............this book was taken down by listening to Patrick Kroupa talk in his sleep after doing 2000 mcgs of LSD 25. Peace Love and Solidarity Randy On 10/26/07, Randy Faulconer wrote: Yea, now these are the questions I dig the most. Very good questions too. I know of a guy who weighed 300 lbs. and was on methadone. The way the math worked out half a gram was a 3 mg cap. It took 3 grams just to get him to the 16 mg flood dose. Now the way these guys do the treatment is to go to 16 and observe where the person is at. This guy was fine at 16 and didn't need to go any further. He refused to take a booster so the treatment took 3 grams just to get him to 16. I personally would have liked to see the guy do 2 more boosters during the course of a week after the treatment. It didn't happen that way though. You can't force somebody to do a booster. I guess what I'm trying to say is this is where experience comes in handy. Your provider should be able to ascertain where you are and if you need to take more. There is no set dose that really does it. Some people just take more than others. I did over 32 mgs per kg when I did my treatment. I guess that shows how much of a fry I am. LOL This is why people need an experienced provider with them. The person doing the Ibogaine sure as hell won't know what is going on in terms of dose. They just needs to trust the provider, lay back and groove, and eat what caps they are given. That's what I did and it seemed to work. My provider had done over 50 treatments when he got to me. As for your question Matt, I'd like to know that too. I'd say Ms Mash might have some idea on that but won't let us know. It'll be in the book LOL LOL. It's just conjecture at this point as to if a bigger person would have a longer nor-ibogaine glow. I'm kinda big for my height and my glow seemed to last for a couple of months. But then again that's just conjecture on my part, I really couldn't prove that. Peace Love and Knowledge Randy On 10/26/07, Matthew Shriver wrote: Hi AimeeI think you would still go with the large over-all dose. The person may not have a bigger brain but that bigger body means the ibogaine is more diffuse throughout all of that tissue. Which means the concentration in the brain is still on par with a smaller weight person who takes a smaller dose. But as to where you would stop, I would say if the person was pushing massive obesity then the chance of complicating factors, like heart condition, would start to weigh on the decision of weather or not to dose at all. I would say the cutoff would be due to those kinds of health issues rather than how large the mg/kg dose is going to have to be. So for example a 160kg basketball player might be ok while a 160kg person who is only 1 meter tall would not. What I have wondered however is if a bigger person, by virtue of having taken a bigger dose, has a longer after glow because there is more material to be metabolized. Matt From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com [mailto: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On Behalf Of Aimee ChamounSent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:47 AMTo: The Ibogaine List Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... Hey, I was wondering,.....mg per kilo dose of Ibogaine. Is there a cut off point??? I mean what if you get someone that is very over weight. For example,..some one is 5 foot 2 and weighs 120 kilo, if you dose at 20 to 25mg per kilo for methadone thats 2.4 to 3 grms of ibo. Thats a lot of iBOGAINE TO GIVE SOMEONE.Then you probably have to give a booster considering it's methadone. Then what if some one weighs a lot more,..surley there is a cut off point as the brain is not any bigger in an overweight person. Where does one stop with the weight per kilo ratio,...150 kg,..200. Just a thought........ Congratulations Kirky. love, Jasen Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:44:45 -0700From: captkirknz at yahoo.co.ukTo: ibogaine at mindvox.comSubject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... Hiya Randy It is amazing how sensitive the system is post ibo.....all ya want to put in your system for the first wee while is calming things, nutritious.,.....even spirulina may have a slight adverse effect. Hopefully he can write something soon :) ----- Original Message ----From: Randy Faulconer < bicuitboy714 at gmail.com>To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:23:24 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... Yea, what he said. I was going to send a note saying be careful, but I can't tell it as eloquently as Charles. St. Johns wort works along the same avenues as some of the anti depressants, so if it was me I would wait at least a week and then start very low and titrate up. I would think that the need for an anti depressant would be taken care of by the ibogaine/nor-ibogaine in the system. Everybody is different so it is good that you are being cautious. You go grrrl, and best regards to Pedro. I'm looking forward to his take on the whole process, he's an interesting guy and it ought to be enlightening. Peace Love and Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz sounds Randy On 10/23/07, Charles Rossouw < charles at ibogainesa.co.za> wrote: Hey Captain For a few hours there may be duplication of the serotonergic and possibly dopaminergic effects, i.e. there may be a potential risk of especially serotonin toxicity reactions. This is due to the weak MAO inhibitory action of Hypericum, and the inhibitory effects it has on the uptake of Serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline. These effects caused by St Johns wort are reported to be relatively weak, so the interaction should not precipitate problems at "normal" (15-20mg/kg) doses of Ibogaine, but caution should be exercised nonetheless, by discontinuing St Johns Wart a day or so before and after treatment. Kind regards Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: Capt Kirk To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... Thanks Mel!! Any of yu knowledgable folks out there know the conflict st johns wort may have with ibo? ----- Original Message ----From: Melanie Gutierrez < gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com>To: The Ibogaine List Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... I'm so EXCITED for HIM!!!! Give him lots of HUGS for me. Lots of hugs for you too! M On 10/21/07, Capt Kirk < captkirknz at yahoo.co.uk > wrote: Happy to report that Pero (Pedro!) had a treatment over the weekend is doing bloody well. Will get him to report on how it went for him. Cheers Iboganauts! Kirk__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][)-=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au . It's simple! -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- Listen now! New music from the Rogue Traders. -=[) ::::::: MindVox | Ibogaine | List Commands ::::::: (]=-(][%] :: http://mindvox.com/mailman/listinfo/ibogaine :: [%][) -=[) :::: Change Account Settings :: [Un]Subscribe :::: (]=- _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/attachments/20071102/19d28c34/attachment-0001.htm From digitalcomponents at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 22:28:00 2007 From: digitalcomponents at gmail.com (Nyc W. Alberts) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:28:00 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Alcohol In-Reply-To: References: <29d165a30710271015i43820524y88f935334c953a73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <472A8B30.3030803@gmail.com> Is there any empirical data yet for those that have used Ibogaine for just alcohol addiction. I'd like to pass word along to several peoples, if there is and I'd like to have all my ducks in a row when I do. Thanks! ~Nyc ....... jasen chamoun wrote: > > Hey Randy, > > There's nothing to forgive,..I can't see anything condescending > in your message. > > Mate,..I understand what you mean about alcoholics should not > drink for a week or preferably 2 > before treatment however as we all know this is difficult for > anyone that has an addiction to do. > > One person I know, had a treatment for alcohol, they weren't > day time drinkers however when they got home > from work they would drink a bottle to a bottle and a half of > red wine every night and sometimes more on Fridays and > Saturdays. They went without alcohol for 36 hours before > treatment. They then had their treatment which was very rough, > they stuggled for at least 2 hours of their journey. They did > also have some pleasantries however very little and no loving > afterglow. > > A few days later they started drinking again. The treatment did > help however not as much as I expected. It will be interesting > to see how a second treatment will affect them. I will keep you > posted on the result. > > love, > Jasen > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:15:28 -0400 > From: bicuitboy714 at gmail.com > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] successful mission... > > Hey Jase, I kinda figured as much and forgive me if I > sounded condescending or anything. I do the same thing and I > pissed off Dimitri and Chris at the conference by asking questions > to make my point. They weren't giving out the facts that I wanted > to be heard. All they had to do was put me on the panel and I > woulda just made my point and then made 'em laugh. LOL O well, I > was being spanked at the time. > > I've "heard about" (he he) treatments for alcohol in > conjunction with other drugs and I have a few idea's on this > subject. Like Simon says (Simon says stand up, o yea where was I) > alcohol is a bitch to kick. I know, I've done it. It's worse than > heroin or oxy's, and right up there with methadone as far as > suffering goes and longevity go. Seizures are the main concern in > a hospital situation, and I would think that it definitely would > be for anybody doing a treatment outside of a clinical setting. > Sooo, I would like to see some research done along the lines of > treating the seizure possibility while doing the Ibogaine > treatment for the other drugs that are being treated for. Every > alcoholic treatment that I have heard of had other drugs involved. > Dilantin is one drug I initially thought of but I think it was > Patrick that told me that Dilantin shouldn't be used with > Ibogaine. I can't remember why other than Dilantin has side > effects that are worsened with Ibogaine. Phenobarbital is the > answer, or maybe librium. I would like to stay away from major > benzo's like Zanax because I think if a person is high on zany's > they will miss some of the beauty of the trip/treatment. I heard > of a treatment where pheno barb was used and it went very smooth. > No seizure activity or undo suffering for the client, and he had > very good visions, some of which I still marvel at to this day. > Laugh too. The thing about pheno barb is it is a very long acting > barbiturate and it takes shit load to get high off of. Therefore > it lasts a long time and the client isn't so whacked that he > doesn't see or appreciate the visions. 50 to 100 mgs is enough to > keep the seizure risk down most of the time as far as I could see. > This dose would have to be given every 8 to 10 hours, maybe a > little longer. > > I think it would be great if a doctor here on the list > would give his or her opinion about this. I know from hearing > first hand what happened but somebody more up on pharmacology > could really help here. Where is Kammlett when we need him?? OOOO > Patrick, hook us up with your knowledge. > > As far as needing more than one treatment because of > alcohol, I think it is known that a lot of people need two > treatments to really kick what they are strung out on. Not just > alcohol. Maybe some really big boosters after the initial flood > and for a week following would do it. The client could be informed > of this and be ready for a longer treatment and pay a little more > for the extra Ibogaine. I wish Ibo was free, but it just isn't. > > So, that's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it until proven > wrong or a better way is found. Alcohol is maybe the worse drug > there is and it's legal............Go figure. I won't debate the > reasons for this, but the government is involved, so there you > have it. > > Peace Love and Purple Squirrels > Randy > > > On 10/26/07, *jasen chamoun* > wrote: > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Hey Randy, > > Nice to hear from you my brother. I ask questions > sometimes to get other peoples opinions even though I may > already > have my own idea, it's good to get other opinions. > > I recently had someone, a girl, who was quite big and on > methadone, hence the question. > > With alcohol, I hear that 2 ibogaine sessions are > necessary with about 1 month in between. Has this been > peoples experience? There is a lot of conflicting > information with alcohol and it would be good to have the > lists opinion/experiences > with treating for alcohol or being treated. > > 2 people that I know of had a single dose of ibogaine for > alcohol and the urge to have a drink came back within a > few days and they didn't experience an after glow. I > understand that a second treament is nesscessary however I > would love to hear from others with their experiences with > alcohol. > > I also hear and have seen that people having ibogaine for > alcohol have a very rough trip. So far this seems to be > the case. > > Thanks for those who offered their opinions,..much > appreciated. > > With love, > Jasen > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > I didn't realize it was you, Jasen my brother, > asking this question. You know what I'm talking about as > far as observation on the client is concerned. These kind > of questions should be in a book. I can see it > now..............The Ibogaine Treatment > Primer............read at your own risk.......these facts > are to be taken with 45 pounds of grains of > salt.............we by no means are saying we know > anything about this experimental > treatment..............this book was taken down by > listening to Patrick Kroupa talk in his sleep after doing > 2000 mcgs of LSD 25. > > Peace Love and Solidarity > Randy > > > On 10/26/07, *Randy Faulconer*