[Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar, spiritual use

Luke Christoffersen luke.christoffersen at gmail.com
Sun May 13 16:49:01 EDT 2007


Hi Melanie,
                Whatever your doing must be working if you have memories
starting at 1.  I'm pretty sure it's possible ibogaine could easily bring
you any birth stuff you might have. I was brought to that place even though
I had no intention or desire to go there. Makes me wonder what is necessary
to go through to be able to live a normal.

                I was reading Stan Grofs book about the therapy using LSD
with patients and some people had pre-birth relivings of being invaded by
toxic chemicals in the womb, maybe from mother smoking or something.  A good
deal of his work deals with the trauma of birth. Reading his book it seems
stuff like that is often relived in a symbolic way.  I think it is similar
with ibogaine.

              I had an experience of being in the womb which was very
pleasant. Of earlier stuff like conception I have only read of.  I think I
read about someone reliving being the sperm in the race to the egg during an
LSD therapy session.

Luke

On 5/11/07, Melanie Gutierrez <gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with you Luke on many of these remarks.   I think alot of our
> (collectively) "problems" stem from somewhere starting from conception.  I
> would go as far to say that the condition of the mothers emotions while
> carrying a child have a great impact on how the fetus/child will later deal
> with things.  Then on to birth....then beginning life.
> One of my hopes for ibo is that some of that will be revealed to me.  Now
> my first early childhood memory begins at the age of 1 year, and in various
> forms of psychotherapy I've went though every thing memory wise at least
> twice since my earliest memory at 1year old.  Funny family discussions I've
> had and described things to my family and they say NO way you remember that,
> you were only 2 years old.....well guess what, it is possible.   So if Ibo
> can reveal to me conception, birth, up to 1 year old, hell I've pretty much
> dealt with the rest of the shit.
> My belief is, That "God"/the universe/budda....(the list goes on)....will
> never give you more than you can handle at any time (yeah old AA phrase),
> but I do believe it.
> More later
> Thanks Luke
> Melanie
>
> On 5/11/07, Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I read Janov suggesting that bipolar is the result of some types of
> > birth trauma. The manic and the depression are the two sides of the same
> > trauma that would have been deeply inprinted on a biological level.  The
> > manics high is the symptoms of the energetic optimistic part of the event
> > were success and the drive for completion was all followed by deep despair
> > and exhaustion when they failed to get through and all hope is lost. They
> > end up going through the same cycle in their symptoms later in life. I'm not
> > sure how much he's right but it makes sense to me.
> >
> > I'd imagine you'd be talking about some very extreme levels of trauma
> > for people with strong bipolar symptoms. Though I think that there are many
> > levels of bipolar depression.  I sometimes seem to have a mild form of it as
> > I suffer depressions but I also get highs and peroids of lots of energy and
> > feel high and like doing lots of stuff. Personally I've found that my
> > deepest pathological problems can all so far be traced back to that one
> > event in my life. Of course lot of things happened in my life but the
> > physiological blueprint for my struggles and mood swings seem to have been
> > laid down from the begining.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure ibogaine could help with healing these problems but I'm
> > not sure how good an idea it is for some people to be trying to do this as
> > you might go through some horrendous places.  It makes me wonder if ibogaine
> > can heal some parts of the mind without having to relive those moments or
> > those negative feelings directly.  I've read of people reliving events from
> > an emotionally detached perspective with ibogaine. Maybe some problems can
> > be healed in a symbolic way without having to regress directly to past
> > events.
> >
> > Luke
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/10/07, Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk > wrote:
> > >
> > >  Hi Jeff,
> > >
> > > I was there too, I think! Was it in Red Lion Sq or somewhere near
> > > there?
> > >
> > > About bi-polar, I think maybe, from a psychological perspective, one
> > > could say that if the disorder is arising because of a lot of material being
> > > held down into the unconscious then maybe ibogaine could be effective. I
> > > don't know enough about bi-polar psychiatrically to give a meaningful
> > > answer, but I think it may be slightly more pathological than psych-. Then
> > > again, this doesn't really mean ibogaine couldn't help. I'm not so much help
> > > here! I think it's fair to say that it also could be quite risky and I
> > > imagine that you'd want to have gone down more traditional therapeutic roads
> > > first.
> > >
> > > Yes, drugs have potential but I still see them more as a thing to be
> > > tried when other approaches have failed or not done enough. There is
> > > invariably a bit of a payback somewhere, in my experience, knowing a lot of
> > > people who've been into psychedelics, and seeing myself.
> > >
> > > About ketamine, I seem to remember from Dr K himself, karl jannson
> > > sometimes aka jan karlson, that it's actually one of the safest drugs of any
> > > class. They give it to 6 week old babies as anaesthetic for operations, so
> > > he said.
> > >
> > > All the best to you
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > *From:* Jeff Black [mailto: jefblac at gmail.com]
> > > *Sent:* 10 May 2007 12:44
> > > *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar,
> > > spiritual use
> > >
> > > Sure - it was Dan Lieberman's talk years ago in London that got me
> > > interested. Before that I didn't know anything about ibogaine. I had read a
> > > lot about the psychotherapeutic work using LSD while it was legal,
> > > particularly people like Stan Grof. So my main motivation is the healing
> > > potential of psychedelics in general, of which ibogaine of course is a
> > > particularly fascinating case. It is a great shame that all that promising
> > > research ended so abruptly. Apparently there were thousands of studies going
> > > on around the world using psychedelics in the 50s and 60s. Now MAPS and
> > > others are managing to get one or two going again (and kudos to them) but
> > > nearly 50 years have been lost. Ironically, things like Ketamine, which have
> > > a recognized medical application are allowed in clinical trials, but a lot
> > > of potentially safer substances are banned. Anyway, good to see things
> > > finally changing for the better.
> > >
> > > On 5/9/07, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  Hi Jeff,
> > > >
> > > > May I ask what attracted you to ibogaine?
> > > > Did you hear about its anti addictive properties or some thing other
> > > > than that? I ask because I am interested in the motivation for seeking
> > > > ibogaine other than addiction. The majority of people I come into contact
> > > > with are addicts. Allot have experience with other entheogens. A smaller
> > > > group for trauma and psychological reasons.
> > > >
> > > > Si.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Jeff Black < jefblac at gmail.com>
> > > > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 May, 2007 2:47:07 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar,
> > > > spiritual use
> > > >
> > > > Simon, yes, I'm just gathering information at present. And the
> > > > nature of the ibogaine world means much of it is anecdotal, but it all helps
> > > > to build a picture. Though I admit that I do feel drawn to the idea that
> > > > there is a healing potential in the plant beyond treatment for addiction.
> > > >
> > > > On 5/9/07, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >  Hi Jeff,
> > > > >
> > > > > From my understanding caution should be used when considering the
> > > > > use of ibogaine if you are bipolar. As to whether ibogaine has any positive
> > > > > effect on bipolar sufferers, I have yet to hear of personal experience or
> > > > > documented evidence.
> > > > > The only possible benefit may be the anti depressant effect.
> > > > > Because ibogaine works on multiple transmitter systems I would say its
> > > > > difficult to predict a single result or action.
> > > > >
> > > > > Si.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > From: Jeff Black < jefblac at gmail.com>
> > > > > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 May, 2007 2:04:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar,
> > > > > spiritual use
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul, (and others), - thanks for your comments. Amazing really if
> > > > > ibogaine potentiates so many other substances. There was some discussion of
> > > > > benzos recently, I wonder if they fall into this category, one would assume
> > > > > so if Valerian does. Funnily enough I just took a capsule of that tonight
> > > > > for the first time in my life to see if it helps me sleep.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other points - my bi-polar question was really about whether
> > > > > ibogaine is contraindicated in that case for the treatment of addiction, but
> > > > > your suggestion is that ibogaine may even help with the underlying bi-polar
> > > > > condition as well as the addiction. Interesting stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the bark / HCL question, my own inclination was towards
> > > > > HCL, simply because it would seem safer (from what I have read). But it's
> > > > > not be the 'whole plant' and so may lack something. My concern about bark is
> > > > > due to the likely variance in samples - there are quite a few sources,
> > > > > compared to HCL at least. How do you know what you're dosing? Or do you just
> > > > > start small and work up?
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5/9/07, Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any stimualnt, even Coffee. Anti-deprssants, also found some
> > > > > > things about
> > > > > > anti-coagulants.
> > > > > > To make a point here. Iboga has a stimulating effect on most
> > > > > > anelgesics. I
> > > > > > mean it makes them stronger.
> > > > > > I took 500mg of Paracetamol for a slight muscle ache and it
> > > > > > floored me for 3
> > > > > > hours. (After ingesting 15 grams of root bark, three days later)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also took after 4 days of ingestion of 1300mg of Ibogaine Hcl,
> > > > > > 30mg of
> > > > > > Codiene and threw up.
> > > > > > I m,ight add it pinned my pupils for nearly five hours.
> > > > > > The Hcl didn't make me throw though:)
> > > > > > First Opiod I have taken in fourteen months.
> > > > > > Made me iller than I required just for some pain.
> > > > > > I have now found that Amanita Muscaria and very low dose Iboga
> > > > > > works fine
> > > > > > for the pain I have sometimes in my back.
> > > > > > Seeing as most if not all our drugs come from plants, ther is
> > > > > > likely to be
> > > > > > some reaction to concoctions.
> > > > > > I even found Iboga to enhance the effects of Wild Lettuce and
> > > > > > low dose
> > > > > > Valerian.
> > > > > > Life is about expression so expresss yourself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul'
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Brad Hays" < bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > > > >To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar,
> > > > > > spiritual use
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 03:19:43 -0400
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >What's the best ideas on what drugs that low doses of iboga (or
> > > > > > even a
> > > > > > >muther lode) would lower one's tolerance to, besides the one's
> > > > > > people are
> > > > > > >trying to get off of?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On 5/8/07, Paul Brookshaw < jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk > wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I would just like to add that low dose Iboga/Ibogaine should
> > > > > > never be
> > > > > > >>attempted in conjunction with other drugs. The effects of low
> > > > > > dose Iboga
> > > > > > >>on
> > > > > > >>ones tolerance is felt vey quickly and should not be attempted
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > >>strict medical supervision. Ibogas ability to lower tolerance
> > > > > > to other
> > > > > > >>substances is probably it's bane.
> > > > > > >>But who said life was easy.
> > > > > > >>Be well.
> > > > > > >>                                             Paul'
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> >From: "Jeff Black" < jefblac at gmail.com >
> > > > > > >> >Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > > > >> >To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > > > >> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens,
> > > > > > Bipolar, spiritual
> > > > > > >>use
> > > > > > >> >Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 22:55:44 +0100
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >I would never take, or suggest any anyone else take ibogaine
> > > > > > alone, that
> > > > > > >> >much is pretty clear. I was just wondering if the problems
> > > > > > that arise
> > > > > > >>are
> > > > > > >> >due to the full 15-20 mg per kg dose, or if as you say it is
> > > > > > some type
> > > > > > >>of
> > > > > > >> >allergic reaction that may also occur at low doses. If
> > > > > > you're not trying
> > > > > > >>to
> > > > > > >> >combat withdrawal symptoms then it seems you could use a
> > > > > > lower dose and
> > > > > > >> >still achieve some sort of breakthrough. My other thought
> > > > > > was the use of
> > > > > > >> >regular, very low doses, as a sort of anti-depressant, but
> > > > > > if that usage
> > > > > > >> >just gives a stimulant effect then you're not really
> > > > > > achieving anything.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >On 5/8/07, Randy Faulconer < bicuitboy714 at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>          Hey Jeff, I take it you're in England. I'll be
> > > > > > glad to tell
> > > > > > >> >>you what I know about it. I just have to say that taking
> > > > > > Ibogaine by
> > > > > > >> >>yourself is not a good idea. Even at low doses there can be
> > > > > > problems.
> > > > > > >> >>It looks to me like some people just might be allergic to
> > > > > > it or
> > > > > > >> >>something. (My opinion) Anyway there was a guy on here last
> > > > > > year that
> > > > > > >> >>did a lot of work on low dose sessions. I can't remember
> > > > > > Lee's last
> > > > > > >> >>name but I'm sure somebody here will. I can't even remember
> > > > > > the name
> > > > > > >> >>of his book, but it's pretty good. Somebody help me out
> > > > > > here. OOOOO
> > > > > > >> >>it's Albert I think. Google Lee Albert and see what you
> > > > > > get.
> > > > > > >> >>         About the bi-polar thing? Patrick readily admits
> > > > > > that he's
> > > > > > >> >>bi-polar and I'm damn near border line I think, so I would
> > > > > > venture to
> > > > > > >> >>say that a bunch of bi-polar people have been treated so
> > > > > > far without
> > > > > > >> >>any big problems coming up.
> > > > > > >> >>        I personally have no problems with anybody doing
> > > > > > Ibogaine for
> > > > > > >> >>spiritual reasons, or as an adjunct to therapy. I've
> > > > > > changed my stance
> > > > > > >> >>on that over the past 2 years. I just think that everybody
> > > > > > ought to
> > > > > > >> >>take it very seriously, and do it with somebody around to
> > > > > > help if
> > > > > > >> >>anything goes wrong. For full dose treatments I'm of the
> > > > > > opinion that
> > > > > > >> >>it should never be done alone or with an inexperienced
> > > > > > person. Just
> > > > > > >> >>me. Thanx for asking, that's what can change the mood of
> > > > > > the list,
> > > > > > >> >>good questions. Please ask more!!
> > > > > > >> >>         Peace Love and Life
> > > > > > >> >>            Randy
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>On 5/8/07, Jeff Black < jefblac at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > I wanted to revive some of Melanie's topics because they
> > > > > > are all of
> > > > > > >> >>interest
> > > > > > >> >> > to me and it would be a shame if the discussions were
> > > > > > off list. Some
> > > > > > >>of
> > > > > > >> >>this
> > > > > > >> >> > may have been covered in the past but as the archives
> > > > > > are not
> > > > > > >>currently
> > > > > > >> >> > available those of us who recently joined don't know.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Here are some things I've been wondering about:
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > The different possible modalities for low dose and
> > > > > > 'full' dose
> > > > > > >>ibogaine
> > > > > > >> >> > usage. For example, are the physical dangers still
> > > > > > inherent in low
> > > > > > >> >>doses? On
> > > > > > >> >> > the bipolar question, is the general feeling that
> > > > > > ibogaine is
> > > > > > >> >> > contraindicated? I have a bipolar friend who is also
> > > > > > using and badly
> > > > > > >> >>needs
> > > > > > >> >> > to quit. Is there any scope for spiritual exploration
> > > > > > using low
> > > > > > >>doses,
> > > > > > >> >>or is
> > > > > > >> >> > this a waste of time (and ibogaine)?
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > Anyway, I don't personally have a problem with the off
> > > > > > topic nature
> > > > > > >>of
> > > > > > >> >>the
> > > > > > >> >> > list, but I'm pretty interested in ibogaine too. I met
> > > > > > Dan Lieberman
> > > > > > >>at
> > > > > > >> >>a
> > > > > > >> >> > talk many years ago, and I also attended Nick and
> > > > > > Hattie's
> > > > > > >>conference
> > > > > > >> >>in
> > > > > > >> >> > London where Patrick spoke, so I've kept abreast of the
> > > > > > subject but
> > > > > > >> >>never
> > > > > > >> >> > had any direct involvement with the substance or
> > > > > > treatment etc.
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > On 5/5/07, Melanie Gutierrez <gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Again, My thread has turned into "shit shit shit"
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Back to my existential crisis.  Patrick,  I would like
> > > > > > to speak
> > > > > > >>with
> > > > > > >> >>you
> > > > > > >> >> > off list if you have time about the uses of Ibogaine for
> > > > > > spiritual
> > > > > > >> >>reasons.
> > > > > > >> >> > I have questions like, I think (guessing) you do
> > > > > > "booster" doses,
> > > > > > >>how
> > > > > > >> >>often.
> > > > > > >> >> >  I have been thinking of beginning my journey during the
> > > > > > solstices,
> > > > > > >>As
> > > > > > >> >>I
> > > > > > >> >>am
> > > > > > >> >> > a person that is greatly influenced by the stars.  The
> > > > > > more I have
> > > > > > >>been
> > > > > > >> >> > paying attention and researching and learning how the
> > > > > > stars and moon
> > > > > > >> >>affect
> > > > > > >> >> > my "bipolar" disorder, the more I have been able to
> > > > > > understand
> > > > > > >>myself
> > > > > > >> >>and my
> > > > > > >> >> > cycles.  Thank you for your time.  There is quite a lot
> > > > > > more I would
> > > > > > >> >>like to
> > > > > > >> >> > talk about, off the list, or even on the list, I'm
> > > > > > pretty much an
> > > > > > >>open
> > > > > > >> >>book.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >>
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