[Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar, spiritual use

Luke Christoffersen luke.christoffersen at gmail.com
Fri May 11 10:09:15 EDT 2007


I read Janov suggesting that bipolar is the result of some types of birth
trauma. The manic and the depression are the two sides of the same trauma
that would have been deeply inprinted on a biological level.  The manics
high is the symptoms of the energetic optimistic part of the event were
success and the drive for completion was all followed by deep despair and
exhaustion when they failed to get through and all hope is lost. They end up
going through the same cycle in their symptoms later in life. I'm not sure
how much he's right but it makes sense to me.

I'd imagine you'd be talking about some very extreme levels of trauma for
people with strong bipolar symptoms. Though I think that there are many
levels of bipolar depression.  I sometimes seem to have a mild form of it as
I suffer depressions but I also get highs and peroids of lots of energy and
feel high and like doing lots of stuff. Personally I've found that my
deepest pathological problems can all so far be traced back to that one
event in my life. Of course lot of things happened in my life but the
physiological blueprint for my struggles and mood swings seem to have been
laid down from the begining.

I'm pretty sure ibogaine could help with healing these problems but I'm not
sure how good an idea it is for some people to be trying to do this as you
might go through some horrendous places.  It makes me wonder if ibogaine can
heal some parts of the mind without having to relive those moments or those
negative feelings directly.  I've read of people reliving events from an
emotionally detached perspective with ibogaine. Maybe some problems can be
healed in a symbolic way without having to regress directly to past events.

Luke




On 5/10/07, Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>  Hi Jeff,
>
> I was there too, I think! Was it in Red Lion Sq or somewhere near there?
>
> About bi-polar, I think maybe, from a psychological perspective, one could
> say that if the disorder is arising because of a lot of material being held
> down into the unconscious then maybe ibogaine could be effective. I don't
> know enough about bi-polar psychiatrically to give a meaningful answer, but
> I think it may be slightly more pathological than psych-. Then again, this
> doesn't really mean ibogaine couldn't help. I'm not so much help here! I
> think it's fair to say that it also could be quite risky and I imagine that
> you'd want to have gone down more traditional therapeutic roads first.
>
> Yes, drugs have potential but I still see them more as a thing to be tried
> when other approaches have failed or not done enough. There is invariably a
> bit of a payback somewhere, in my experience, knowing a lot of people who've
> been into psychedelics, and seeing myself.
>
> About ketamine, I seem to remember from Dr K himself, karl jannson
> sometimes aka jan karlson, that it's actually one of the safest drugs of any
> class. They give it to 6 week old babies as anaesthetic for operations, so
> he said.
>
> All the best to you
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Jeff Black [mailto:jefblac at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 10 May 2007 12:44
> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar, spiritual
> use
>
> Sure - it was Dan Lieberman's talk years ago in London that got me
> interested. Before that I didn't know anything about ibogaine. I had read a
> lot about the psychotherapeutic work using LSD while it was legal,
> particularly people like Stan Grof. So my main motivation is the healing
> potential of psychedelics in general, of which ibogaine of course is a
> particularly fascinating case. It is a great shame that all that promising
> research ended so abruptly. Apparently there were thousands of studies going
> on around the world using psychedelics in the 50s and 60s. Now MAPS and
> others are managing to get one or two going again (and kudos to them) but
> nearly 50 years have been lost. Ironically, things like Ketamine, which have
> a recognized medical application are allowed in clinical trials, but a lot
> of potentially safer substances are banned. Anyway, good to see things
> finally changing for the better.
>
> On 5/9/07, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi Jeff,
> >
> > May I ask what attracted you to ibogaine?
> > Did you hear about its anti addictive properties or some thing other
> > than that? I ask because I am interested in the motivation for seeking
> > ibogaine other than addiction. The majority of people I come into contact
> > with are addicts. Allot have experience with other entheogens. A smaller
> > group for trauma and psychological reasons.
> > Si.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Jeff Black < jefblac at gmail.com>
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 9 May, 2007 2:47:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar, spiritual
> > use
> >
> > Simon, yes, I'm just gathering information at present. And the nature of
> > the ibogaine world means much of it is anecdotal, but it all helps to build
> > a picture. Though I admit that I do feel drawn to the idea that there is a
> > healing potential in the plant beyond treatment for addiction.
> >
> > On 5/9/07, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> > >
> > >  Hi Jeff,
> > >
> > > From my understanding caution should be used when considering the use
> > > of ibogaine if you are bipolar. As to whether ibogaine has any positive
> > > effect on bipolar sufferers, I have yet to hear of personal experience or
> > > documented evidence.
> > > The only possible benefit may be the anti depressant effect. Because
> > > ibogaine works on multiple transmitter systems I would say its difficult to
> > > predict a single result or action.
> > >
> > > Si.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Jeff Black < jefblac at gmail.com>
> > > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 May, 2007 2:04:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar,
> > > spiritual use
> > >
> > > Paul, (and others), - thanks for your comments. Amazing really if
> > > ibogaine potentiates so many other substances. There was some discussion of
> > > benzos recently, I wonder if they fall into this category, one would assume
> > > so if Valerian does. Funnily enough I just took a capsule of that tonight
> > > for the first time in my life to see if it helps me sleep.
> > >
> > > Other points - my bi-polar question was really about whether ibogaine
> > > is contraindicated in that case for the treatment of addiction, but your
> > > suggestion is that ibogaine may even help with the underlying bi-polar
> > > condition as well as the addiction. Interesting stuff.
> > >
> > > Regarding the bark / HCL question, my own inclination was towards HCL,
> > > simply because it would seem safer (from what I have read). But it's not be
> > > the 'whole plant' and so may lack something. My concern about bark is due to
> > > the likely variance in samples - there are quite a few sources, compared to
> > > HCL at least. How do you know what you're dosing? Or do you just start small
> > > and work up?
> > >
> > > On 5/9/07, Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Any stimualnt, even Coffee. Anti-deprssants, also found some things
> > > > about
> > > > anti-coagulants.
> > > > To make a point here. Iboga has a stimulating effect on most
> > > > anelgesics. I
> > > > mean it makes them stronger.
> > > > I took 500mg of Paracetamol for a slight muscle ache and it floored
> > > > me for 3
> > > > hours. (After ingesting 15 grams of root bark, three days later)
> > > > I also took after 4 days of ingestion of 1300mg of Ibogaine Hcl,
> > > > 30mg of
> > > > Codiene and threw up.
> > > > I m,ight add it pinned my pupils for nearly five hours.
> > > > The Hcl didn't make me throw though:)
> > > > First Opiod I have taken in fourteen months.
> > > > Made me iller than I required just for some pain.
> > > > I have now found that Amanita Muscaria and very low dose Iboga works
> > > > fine
> > > > for the pain I have sometimes in my back.
> > > > Seeing as most if not all our drugs come from plants, ther is likely
> > > > to be
> > > > some reaction to concoctions.
> > > > I even found Iboga to enhance the effects of Wild Lettuce and low
> > > > dose
> > > > Valerian.
> > > > Life is about expression so expresss yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Paul'
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Brad Hays" < bradleyheathhays at gmail.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > >To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar,
> > > > spiritual use
> > > > >Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 03:19:43 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >What's the best ideas on what drugs that low doses of iboga (or
> > > > even a
> > > > >muther lode) would lower one's tolerance to, besides the one's
> > > > people are
> > > > >trying to get off of?
> > > > >
> > > > >On 5/8/07, Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>I would just like to add that low dose Iboga/Ibogaine should never
> > > > be
> > > > >>attempted in conjunction with other drugs. The effects of low dose
> > > > Iboga
> > > > >>on
> > > > >>ones tolerance is felt vey quickly and should not be attempted
> > > > without
> > > > >>strict medical supervision. Ibogas ability to lower tolerance to
> > > > other
> > > > >>substances is probably it's bane.
> > > > >>But who said life was easy.
> > > > >>Be well.
> > > > >>                                             Paul'
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >From: "Jeff Black" < jefblac at gmail.com>
> > > > >> >Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > >> >To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > > > >> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters, low dose regimens, Bipolar,
> > > > spiritual
> > > > >>use
> > > > >> >Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 22:55:44 +0100
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >I would never take, or suggest any anyone else take ibogaine
> > > > alone, that
> > > > >> >much is pretty clear. I was just wondering if the problems that
> > > > arise
> > > > >>are
> > > > >> >due to the full 15-20 mg per kg dose, or if as you say it is
> > > > some type
> > > > >>of
> > > > >> >allergic reaction that may also occur at low doses. If you're
> > > > not trying
> > > > >>to
> > > > >> >combat withdrawal symptoms then it seems you could use a lower
> > > > dose and
> > > > >> >still achieve some sort of breakthrough. My other thought was
> > > > the use of
> > > > >> >regular, very low doses, as a sort of anti-depressant, but if
> > > > that usage
> > > > >> >just gives a stimulant effect then you're not really achieving
> > > > anything.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >On 5/8/07, Randy Faulconer < bicuitboy714 at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>          Hey Jeff, I take it you're in England. I'll be glad
> > > > to tell
> > > > >> >>you what I know about it. I just have to say that taking
> > > > Ibogaine by
> > > > >> >>yourself is not a good idea. Even at low doses there can be
> > > > problems.
> > > > >> >>It looks to me like some people just might be allergic to it or
> > > >
> > > > >> >>something. (My opinion) Anyway there was a guy on here last
> > > > year that
> > > > >> >>did a lot of work on low dose sessions. I can't remember Lee's
> > > > last
> > > > >> >>name but I'm sure somebody here will. I can't even remember the
> > > > name
> > > > >> >>of his book, but it's pretty good. Somebody help me out here.
> > > > OOOOO
> > > > >> >>it's Albert I think. Google Lee Albert and see what you get.
> > > > >> >>         About the bi-polar thing? Patrick readily admits that
> > > > he's
> > > > >> >>bi-polar and I'm damn near border line I think, so I would
> > > > venture to
> > > > >> >>say that a bunch of bi-polar people have been treated so far
> > > > without
> > > > >> >>any big problems coming up.
> > > > >> >>        I personally have no problems with anybody doing
> > > > Ibogaine for
> > > > >> >>spiritual reasons, or as an adjunct to therapy. I've changed my
> > > > stance
> > > > >> >>on that over the past 2 years. I just think that everybody
> > > > ought to
> > > > >> >>take it very seriously, and do it with somebody around to help
> > > > if
> > > > >> >>anything goes wrong. For full dose treatments I'm of the
> > > > opinion that
> > > > >> >>it should never be done alone or with an inexperienced person.
> > > > Just
> > > > >> >>me. Thanx for asking, that's what can change the mood of the
> > > > list,
> > > > >> >>good questions. Please ask more!!
> > > > >> >>         Peace Love and Life
> > > > >> >>            Randy
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>On 5/8/07, Jeff Black < jefblac at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> > I wanted to revive some of Melanie's topics because they are
> > > > all of
> > > > >> >>interest
> > > > >> >> > to me and it would be a shame if the discussions were off
> > > > list. Some
> > > > >>of
> > > > >> >>this
> > > > >> >> > may have been covered in the past but as the archives are
> > > > not
> > > > >>currently
> > > > >> >> > available those of us who recently joined don't know.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Here are some things I've been wondering about:
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > The different possible modalities for low dose and 'full'
> > > > dose
> > > > >>ibogaine
> > > > >> >> > usage. For example, are the physical dangers still inherent
> > > > in low
> > > > >> >>doses? On
> > > > >> >> > the bipolar question, is the general feeling that ibogaine
> > > > is
> > > > >> >> > contraindicated? I have a bipolar friend who is also using
> > > > and badly
> > > > >> >>needs
> > > > >> >> > to quit. Is there any scope for spiritual exploration using
> > > > low
> > > > >>doses,
> > > > >> >>or is
> > > > >> >> > this a waste of time (and ibogaine)?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Anyway, I don't personally have a problem with the off topic
> > > > nature
> > > > >>of
> > > > >> >>the
> > > > >> >> > list, but I'm pretty interested in ibogaine too. I met Dan
> > > > Lieberman
> > > > >>at
> > > > >> >>a
> > > > >> >> > talk many years ago, and I also attended Nick and Hattie's
> > > > >>conference
> > > > >> >>in
> > > > >> >> > London where Patrick spoke, so I've kept abreast of the
> > > > subject but
> > > > >> >>never
> > > > >> >> > had any direct involvement with the substance or treatment
> > > > etc.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > On 5/5/07, Melanie Gutierrez <gutierrezmelanie at gmail.com >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > Again, My thread has turned into "shit shit shit"
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > Back to my existential crisis.  Patrick,  I would like to
> > > > speak
> > > > >>with
> > > > >> >>you
> > > > >> >> > off list if you have time about the uses of Ibogaine for
> > > > spiritual
> > > > >> >>reasons.
> > > > >> >> > I have questions like, I think (guessing) you do "booster"
> > > > doses,
> > > > >>how
> > > > >> >>often.
> > > > >> >> >  I have been thinking of beginning my journey during the
> > > > solstices,
> > > > >>As
> > > > >> >>I
> > > > >> >>am
> > > > >> >> > a person that is greatly influenced by the stars.  The more
> > > > I have
> > > > >>been
> > > > >> >> > paying attention and researching and learning how the stars
> > > > and moon
> > > > >> >>affect
> > > > >> >> > my "bipolar" disorder, the more I have been able to
> > > > understand
> > > > >>myself
> > > > >> >>and my
> > > > >> >> > cycles.  Thank you for your time.  There is quite a lot more
> > > > I would
> > > > >> >>like to
> > > > >> >> > talk about, off the list, or even on the list, I'm pretty
> > > > much an
> > > > >>open
> > > > >> >>book.
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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