[Ibogaine] ibogaine was Re: [Ibogaine] Shit shit shit

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Thu May 10 15:26:19 EDT 2007

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mason Shipley [mailto:maseshipley at gmail.com]
> Sent: 07 May 2007 00:11
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine was Re: [Ibogaine] Shit shit shit
> I haven't been since nearly the start, I only arrived in 2005 but in
> that time I've noticed the very obvious. Ibogaine is more or less, the
> same 15 people, period. If it's about press attention and media
> exposure, then that shrinks even lower, down to a handful of those who
> are the most charismatic. If I was going to put names to at least some
> of them, what comes to me is Howard Lotsof, Dana Beal, Deborah Mash,
> Patrick Kroupa, Ken Alper, Stanley Glick, Eric Taub, Marko, Nick
> Sandberg, Sara Glatt, Dimitri with the ibogaine underground and in the
> more near past of 2 years or so, different MD's from different
> treatment facilities, the new version of Iboga Therapy House and the
> new providers in South Africa and Mexico.
> All information and original research more or less starts with a very
> small group of people who incidentally also seem to have complete
> control of the drug itself. Tell me if I'm wrong, but there are really
> only two sources of ibogaine hcl in the world, from Marko and
> Patrick's church which is where most treatment providers, online
> entheogen shops and a lot of people get it and Eric Taub. If there is
> some other original source of purified ibogaine, it's very secretive.
> I forgot, Deborah Mash has her own private labs. Every so often some
> other source arrives, the prices are higher and the quality is lower
> and it goes away again. It looks like you need connections, labs and a
> lot of money to start a new one.
> That same group of people without taking any sides but lumping them
> all together, generate more lawsuits, patent wars, arguments and hate
> between one another, then there is published information about what
> any of them are doing. Which is another topic in itself, there are
> always rumors of what's happening but the truth is there are a very
> small group of people who have real awareness of what is happening who
> died where and why and none of this is ever put out there in a open
> and transparent way. It is always about damage control, controlling
> information and how ibogaine is presented.
> This leaves people with good intentions and wanting to help but
> lacking any real information. How many dead bodies are there really?
> Is anyone honest about this ever? I don't see it.
> The Bwiti who have posted to this list have mostly been exactly the
> same, they make death threats to each other and argue. The treatment
> providers have shown themselves at different times to be some of the
> most unstable and angry people on this list. There isn't any lack of
> other forums where people want to talk about ibogaine. tribe.net has
> had one for years, but none of them ever contain anything except the
> clueless showing interest, because everything always goes back to the
> same small group of people who have all known each other for 10 or 20
> years, who incidentally control all of the ibogaine in the world
> unless you want to start your own lab or go find it in the Gabon.
> Maybe the only solution to all of this, is if ibogaine is finally
> banned in every country in the world, so everyone can stop issuing new
> patents and 10 lawsuits for everything that ever happens and real
> progress can be made. Right now I don't see that ever happening,
> ibogaine is different then every other entheogen in this way because
> probably it does something unique by letting people get off of hard
> drugs.
> With respect and not denying that a very small handful of people has
> also put in a tremendous amount of work, their time, their lives, for
> ibogaine so its very possible they have the right to act the way that
> they do which doesn't make it any more helpful but is in the end very
> human. It's not as if the FDA or any other solution looks to work any
> better.
> -Mase

Hey Mase,

Wow, I actually totally agree with you! I think, in the final run of things,
if ibogaine ever gets legal and available it will not be because we all
really fought the system so unrelentingly that something moved, rather that
this group of near-pathological control-freak, isolating, so-called
activists (aka us) actually did, for a brief period, manage to work together
and share what we know.


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