[Ibogaine] ibogaine was Re: [Ibogaine] Shit shit shit
Matt at ITSupport.net
Sun May 6 21:34:27 EDT 2007
Simon and everyone
Does anyone have anything from Ken about the deaths and his presentation
that can be posted to the list?
More on the topic at hand. I owe my awareness of ibogaine, and therefore
indirectly, my life such as it is now without drugs, to MAPS originally for
an article they wrote about it that I read before I ever even tried heroin.
And then later to Howard who found me on a newgroup (alt.drugs.hard) who
directed me to the Calyx list where I found the person who made it available
to me. And oddly enough, or maybe not, from that original list I remember
Nick who is now here, and so is Howard, and so is the person who helped me
obtain it way back then, and so am I. So yeah, it's kind of a small world.
From: simon loxton [mailto:simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 7:25 PM
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine was Re: [Ibogaine] Shit shit shit
Being a newcomer to the list of so called "Providers" of ibogaine I have
made the same observation as you. I found though, when speaking by telephone
to doctor Ken Alper, that he had a seemingly unbiased information on
ibogaine deaths. I found this helpful as I believe it is the right of the
people who wish to use ibogaine to have the facts.
I have also recently made contact with the Open Mind Institute in Slovenia
who are involved in research. They were quite happy to pass out information.
Other than your suggestion of having ibogaine banned as a solution to the
exclusivity of ibogaine and personal differences. I am more optimistic and
hope that either a new generation start a trend in acting as a unified group
sharing information. Or the other possibility is that the current small
number of people set ibogaine as a priority even though there are personal
differences. I have personally observed allot of bad blood from the
beginning, which I think started from certain individuals trying to put them
selves at the top by stepping on others. I think this is where it all
possibly stems from, all the differences that is. I may be naive in my
statement and not have all the facts, this is just my observation and
I am all for cooperation and putting ibogaine first, the open sharing of
information no matter who discovered it. I agree that the person to make
whatever findings to further ibogaine in general should receive credit where
credit is due, but not to deliberately keep information from people for
their own person gain.
With my contact with doctors and other medical professionals recently, I
have learnt that hardy anything at all it known about ibogaine outside the
circles of people involved with it. Not only that but there is a lot of
confusion, rumour and scepticism.
My feeling is that if there is a unified body instead of "each for them
selves", more people will have a better picture of ibogaine in general, and
the facts can reach beyond the people directly involved. Once more people
know about ibogaine and the facts, the future of ibogaine may look more
promising. Maybe its going to take one of ibogaine's derivatives to do this?
I hope a more unified approach among the people currently involved with
----- Original Message ----
From: Mason Shipley <maseshipley at gmail.com>
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, 6 May, 2007 4:11:29 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine was Re: [Ibogaine] Shit shit shit
I haven't been since nearly the start, I only arrived in 2005 but in
that time I've noticed the very obvious. Ibogaine is more or less, the
same 15 people, period. If it's about press attention and media
exposure, then that shrinks even lower, down to a handful of those who
are the most charismatic. If I was going to put names to at least some
of them, what comes to me is Howard Lotsof, Dana Beal, Deborah Mash,
Patrick Kroupa, Ken Alper, Stanley Glick, Eric Taub, Marko, Nick
Sandberg, Sara Glatt, Dimitri with the ibogaine underground and in the
more near past of 2 years or so, different MD's from different
treatment facilities, the new version of Iboga Therapy House and the
new providers in South Africa and Mexico.
All information and original research more or less starts with a very
small group of people who incidentally also seem to have complete
control of the drug itself. Tell me if I'm wrong, but there are really
only two sources of ibogaine hcl in the world, from Marko and
Patrick's church which is where most treatment providers, online
entheogen shops and a lot of people get it and Eric Taub. If there is
some other original source of purified ibogaine, it's very secretive.
I forgot, Deborah Mash has her own private labs. Every so often some
other source arrives, the prices are higher and the quality is lower
and it goes away again. It looks like you need connections, labs and a
lot of money to start a new one.
That same group of people without taking any sides but lumping them
all together, generate more lawsuits, patent wars, arguments and hate
between one another, then there is published information about what
any of them are doing. Which is another topic in itself, there are
always rumors of what's happening but the truth is there are a very
small group of people who have real awareness of what is happening who
died where and why and none of this is ever put out there in a open
and transparent way. It is always about damage control, controlling
information and how ibogaine is presented.
This leaves people with good intentions and wanting to help but
lacking any real information. How many dead bodies are there really?
Is anyone honest about this ever? I don't see it.
The Bwiti who have posted to this list have mostly been exactly the
same, they make death threats to each other and argue. The treatment
providers have shown themselves at different times to be some of the
most unstable and angry people on this list. There isn't any lack of
other forums where people want to talk about ibogaine. tribe.net has
had one for years, but none of them ever contain anything except the
clueless showing interest, because everything always goes back to the
same small group of people who have all known each other for 10 or 20
years, who incidentally control all of the ibogaine in the world
unless you want to start your own lab or go find it in the Gabon.
Maybe the only solution to all of this, is if ibogaine is finally
banned in every country in the world, so everyone can stop issuing new
patents and 10 lawsuits for everything that ever happens and real
progress can be made. Right now I don't see that ever happening,
ibogaine is different then every other entheogen in this way because
probably it does something unique by letting people get off of hard
With respect and not denying that a very small handful of people has
also put in a tremendous amount of work, their time, their lives, for
ibogaine so its very possible they have the right to act the way that
they do which doesn't make it any more helpful but is in the end very
human. It's not as if the FDA or any other solution looks to work any
On 5/5/07, simon loxton <simonloxton at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign
l> up for your free account today.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
More information about the Ibogaine