[Ibogaine] prometa

Vector Vector vector620022002 at yahoo.com
Sun Dec 30 18:19:24 EST 2007


A long time ago back around 2002 or 2003, Randy Hencken from the
original ibogaine association used to recommend rational recovery as
being what he used when he got clean, instead of the 12 steps. Then
there was some back and forth with the founder of rational recovery
Jack Trimpey when Heroin Times was being published and Patrick was
writing ibogaine articles for every one of their issues, I think the
end of all this was overall agreement that the 12 steps did not work
for a lot of people, if they worked for you great do them, if they
didn't find something else to do because failing at the 12 steps isn't
the same thing as failing at trying to get clean and ibogaine was a
great starting point for whatev you wanted to do afterwards.

This was all covered in the past, Trimpey has registered trademarks on
almost everything to do with rational recovery but then that's how he
makes his living, being a addiction 'expert' selling this possible way
to get off drugs, like Stanton Peele is a addiction 'expert' who makes
his living putting his name on books other peeps ghost write for him.
Besides the obvious for profit motivation of alot of Rational Recovery,
that doesn't take away the benefit the system might have to some people
and obviously had to some after-ibogaine peeps like Randy himself. 

In response to the commercial slant of the whole rr program, Smart
Recovery, the 'open source' version of rational recovery started up a
long time ago, their site is

http://www.smartrecovery.org/

Same system, but without a link to 3 books you need and 5 seminars you
should attend after each paragraph ;)

.:vector:.

--- Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net> wrote:

> Hi Scott
> 
>  
> 
> I was sort of poking fun at the rational recovery thing without
> really
> giving it credit.  To my mind the difference between an addict and a
> non-addict is whether or not they can stop of their own accord. 
> Based on
> this understanding I am generally of the opinion that an addict can
> never
> "learn" anything that will suddenly allow them to stop using.  In my
> view
> there is no magic knowledge, nor any sort of will-power inducing
> exercise
> that will suddenly give them the strength to over-come their
> addiction.
> 
>  
> 
> But as with most of my opinions time has lessened my grip on them and
> after
> reading your post I have to admit a certain lack of recognition of a
> possible middle ground.  Maybe the rational recovery weekend course
> is
> exactly what some people need so possibly I should be less dismissive
> of it.
> My experience with ibo was that it actually did give me a certain
> will power
> that was lacking before, but it also gave me a freedom from craving
> so it's
> hard to say whether will power would have been enough in the face of
> a drug
> craving.  What I do know is that without ibo I was definitely unable
> to will
> power my way out of using.
> 
>  
> 
> Nice that it is all theoretical discussion for me now rather than
> that
> shitty, strung-out, grasping at any hope, desperation it used to be. 
> Damn
> it's a good day not to be loaded!
> 
>  
> 
> Matt
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com
> [mailto:ibogaine-bounces at mindvox.com] On
> Behalf Of Scott Doran
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:30 AM
> To: The Ibogaine List
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] prometa
> 
>  
> 
> Sounds like Prometa would have a hard time competing with IBO. The
> Rational
> Recovery makes a lot of sense, but many need a profound landmark in
> life
> which an IBO experience, I am led to believe, can provide to make the
> commitment. Very generous of the group to offer an initial free
> session. I
> myself recovered from Methadone just by knowing that I wanted to
> stop. My
> tapering off period took until I ran out and I vowed never to return
> to a
> pain management clinic again. Now that it's over I know I won't use
> because
> I would never want to go through it again. Paradoxically, I have less
> pain
> and cramps off narcotics. I am grateful that I could give it up
> independently, but am supportive of whatever works for anyone. While
> not
> demanding of, I would still love to experience IBO for the right
> reason for
> myself. I too have mixed feelings whether IBO should go mainstream or
> not.
> on the one hand I would like as many people helped by IBO as need it,
> however, it is a sacrament and should be treated as such. What would
> be
> next, Aldous Huxley's "Soma", to make us happy under a new world
> order? Just
> pondering, no prescriptions, no pun. 
> 
> On Dec 30, 2007 12:52 AM, Matthew Shriver <matt at itsupport.net> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone else heard of this stuff?  I heard someone mention it to
> me the
> other day for the first time and from what she was saying I was
> surprised I
> hadn't heard of it before.  But after researching it on the internet
> it
> looks like one of those "way too good to be true" things.  For
> example they
> claim:
> 
>  
> 
> "98% of methamphetamine and cocaine addicts achieved clean urine
> screening
> tests for three months after the Prometa treatment provided by
> Hythiam."
> 
>  
> 
> Pretty God damned remarkable results.  Unfortunately they have zero
> peer
> reviewed studies to backup their claim.  Prometa is apparently a
> combination
> of 3 existing FDA approved drugs but they are not approved for
> addiction
> treatment so it is being used "off label" as they say, which from
> what I
> gather means this Hythiam company doesn't have to follow normal
> medical
> protocols or regulations.  The company incidentally was created by a
> former
> junk-bond salesman no less, .  Modern day snake oil salesmen from the
> looks
> of it.  They have a high profile marketing campaign, but it's target
> is
> apparently the general public and the criminal justice system rather
> than
> the medical or addiction treatment fields.  I can't seem to find what
> the
> three drugs are however accept that one of them might possibly be
> flumazenil
> which is apparently used to counter the effects of benzos. 
> Treatments
> apparently cost something in the neighborhood of 7,000-15,000
> dollars.  For
> a second I thought it would be nice for ibo to get that kind of
> marketing to
> maybe nreak out a little more mainstream and get some more interest
> but then
> I thought it's probably better that it doesn't go mainstream as the
> result
> of some slick ad campaign and gets there on it's own merits instead.
> 
>  
> 
> I stole this quote from this website
> http://www.stats.org/stories/stay_skep_add_oct12_06.htm : 
> 
> As Herb Kleber, one of the authors of the JAMA study, noted back in
> 1982,
> when it comes to addiction treatment:
> 
> "The history. is a long and dishonorable one. The trail is strewn
> with cures
> enthusiastically received and then quietly discarded when they turned
> out to
> be relatively ineffective or even worse, productive of greater
> morbidity and
> mortality ... Any claim for a new method should be put forward
> modestly and
> viewed with skepticism until amply documented by careful experimental
> procedures."
> 
> UROD anyone?  Rational recovery sells a weekend cure, yes a cure no
> less and
> it only takes a weekend, what a value!  How much would you expect to
> pay for
> a weekend addiction cure?  Wait!  Don't answer yet!  Because for a
> limited
> time only it's free!  That's right free!  A $1400 value free!
> http://www.rational.org/now.html
> 
>  
> 
> Matt
> 
>  
> 
> Did this Prometa stuff get discussed here already?  It sounds vaguely
> familiar to me now that I wrote this.
> 
> 
> 
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