[Ibogaine] University of the streets

Charles Rossouw charles at ibogainesa.co.za
Thu Dec 20 00:41:26 EST 2007


Hallo all

I agree with Howard.  At the time of giving the information, (around Feb 
06), it was correct.  At that time I have treated around 30-40 persons only, 
at their homes or in hotel rooms.

Subsequently, however, a lot has happened and the clinic was started and 
expanded, another center was trained to do treatments, and the number of 
treatments in only one facility is in excess of 200 to date.  The other 
facility has also done more than 100 treatments.

Kind regards

Charles

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Howard Lotsof" <hslotsof at phantom.com>
To: "The Ibogaine List" <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] University of the streets


> If you will look at the table in the article it indicates how many
> patients were treated at which facility.  All information came from
> providers and was tracked over a period of some years.  Some of the
> providers treated less than a dozen patients, Panama and Brazil for
> instance.  While other providers were running approximately 400
> patients, Mallendi's operations before the French authorities
> restricted ibogaine and Taub.  Internet providers were not included
> as we could not obtain sufficient data. If you will read the earlier
> Alper et al. ibogaine history paper <www.ibogaine.org/history.html>
> and correlate it with the current medical subculture paper you can
> get a pretty good idea of the time frame of the various provides that
> is at most seven years.  All of the counties included in the
> Wikipedia article except New Zealand are included in one or both
> papers.  If you have followed the communications on this list over
> the years I don't think they indicate more than a dozen patients
> treated in New Zealand.  The paper only included operations working
> in the open, having web pages or included in media or scientific
> publications.  A good deal of the wikipedia article was written by
> persons on this list.
>
> I believe the cutoff for data on patients treated was February 2006.
> All of the major ibogaine providers are included.  If you think there
> is some vast undisclosed subset of patients other than those who
> bought ibogaine over the internet, please let us know.  Thanks
>
> Howard
>
> On Dec 18, 2007, at 10:06 PM, Nyc W. Alberts wrote:
>
>> Well, the Wikipedia lists these countries as having Ibogaine
>> Clinics, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, Costa Rica, the Czech
>> Republic, France, Slovenia, the Netherlands, Brazil, South Africa,
>> the United Kingdom and New Zealand, which, if the the 3,400 were
>> divided equally, that would average out to about 285 patients per.
>>
>> There's no time frame for how long these places have been in
>> operation, and some of the folks that I've spoken to they said that
>> they've single-handedly administered more treatments, so I'm
>> inclined to think that the 3,400 is somewhat low.
>>
>> ~Nyc
>>
>>
>> Howard Lotsof wrote:
>>> On Dec 18, 2007, at 2:29 AM, Brad Hays wrote:
>>>> Hey Howard, I'm not questioning but i've wondered how is the
>>>> number 3400 arrived at? Like what percentage is from concrete
>>>> sources and whats guestimation? Is there a +/- factor? If
>>>> anything i'm guessing the actual number'd be higher, least I hope
>>> It is all data received from providers who met the criteria
>>> described in the paper,The Ibogaine Medical Subculture. Actual
>>> treatment figures meeting projected values increased the number
>>> into the four thousand plus area but, significant smaller
>>> operations were left out including internet point of sales which
>>> could be significant. that may not be that small The figures are
>>> conservative and of the date indicated in the paper. Howard -=
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