[Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle

Warren Lee Theriot wleetheriot at comcast.net
Wed Sep 6 22:58:09 EDT 2006


Yep,
I am still here as it will take several days before I have to take  
this electronic window to the world to the shop, for as long as this  
keeps from freezing up. I know who needs dissing: The Walt Disney  
Company for showing the farce production about 9-11  on TV. I started  
seeing Red there in 1996 as far as I can tell from my own experience  
from the management in my old department. Now ABC is really sucking  
up to the right-wing nuts by perpetuating the myth that Saddam  
Hussein had anything to do with 9-11. So with all they have as far as  
the ability to create fairy tails, this 9-11 myth-story they are  
trying to pass off as the truth is just another dark fairy tale.  
Sinister. And sucks up to BushCo who probably couldn't give a damn  
about anybody with an addictive drug habit, either by choice or by  
resulting from an accident which put them into a lifelong chronic  
pain syndrome, for which there is no cure, but remedy by opioids.  US  
government agents pushed Heroin onto the US from Vietnam in the 60's  
and 70's and Cocaine in the 80's.  Big Pharma profits from the pain  
of the nation: look at the giant doughnut holes, dropped from the  
justice dept's coffee klatches into the laps of those paying for  
perscription drug coverage for medicare, metaphorically speaking.  
Pure rip-off of the nation, pure profit for the shrub's base.
Peace and Love,
Warren

On Sep 6, 2006, at 6:27 PM, Dave Brockman wrote:

> Dana nevermind, you're right of course, everyone else is just crazy.
> Let me count up the peeps you have dissed in your one long letter.
>
> Joyce Woods of NAMA.
> John Morgan
> Rob Kampia of course, who got his job because he supplied Peter B.
> Lewis with ho's. You dis him all over the place and call him stupid,
> "because he's not exactly an intellectual giant"
> Peter B. Lewis
>
> You didn't really dis Ethan Nadelman, so I'll skip over him.
>
> Rob Kampia showed up at the ibogaine conf then walked out during Ken
> Alpers talk. Newsflash Dana, so did half the room including most of
> your panelists, Dr. Alper may understand exactly what he's talking
> about but he puts people listening to him to sleep. He ran long over
> time and cleared the room. I understand he's a MD willing to put his
> name on ibo and that's good and all, but being kind the bro seriously
> needs some work on his presentation. Being bored and walking out on
> Alper's talk, isn't the same as being against the ibogaine movement.
> Alper's talk was boring, peeps got bored, they left, some never came
> back. Maybe schedule him near the end nex time, because it's not fair
> to everybody who follows him.
>
> You're right about everything Dana, keep doing what you're doing. All
> of those peeps listed only in my reply to your one letter, are against
> ibogaine, it couldn't possibly be that you're "acting like a dick" no,
> that couldn't be it. I guess Rob Kampia has come a long way if he's
> stupid and the only thing he's good at is getting Peter B. Lewis ho's.
> Joyce Woods is stupid because she doesn't put ibogaine into the middle
> of NAMA's agenda, forget it, I'll stop, you're right Dana, about
> everything, why bother commenting.
>
> -broc
>
> On 9/6/06, Dana Beal <dana at phantom.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From:   wleetheriot at comcast.net
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle
>>
>> Forgive me for losing track of who wrote what in this thread at  
>> this point
>> in time[I just cleaned out my mailbox and now the different colors  
>> and
>> placements of replies to posts are getting me mixed up: it seems  
>> that either
>> Nick or Dana wrote it], but this is in response to the following:
>>
>> "BTW, the Dutch seem
>> not to be so much concerned about separating groups
>> as they are about
>> keeping pot from being a "loss leader" for other
>> drugs, keeping
>> junkies from actually running the trade and
>> introducing heroin to
>> their favored customers, or any situation where
>> cannabis money
>> subsidizes heroin use."
>>
>>
>> In 40 years of use of cannabis, maybe twice have I obtained the  
>> grass from
>> someone who had anything to do with Heroin. The second time, if I had
>> actually known whom it was with the H, I very well may have  
>> dropped the dime
>> on that person, as he may have sold my best friend the last and  
>> lethal dose
>> of my friend's life. I might have even strangled the person I was  
>> so upset
>> at the time if I had known where to find him.  But that was 13  
>> years ago and
>> those connections are long gone in favor of expensive "legal"  
>> medical MJ.
>> This is California, not Holland btw. In 1967, my uncle tried to  
>> scare me
>> from trying pot because he truly believed that people who sold pot  
>> were
>> putting Heroin in the pot in order to "get you hooked". I went to the
>> Midwest in the late 60's and early 70's and not until 1971, was I  
>> able to
>> find any pot and then it was of such poor quality it hardly had  
>> any effect.
>> Then Hash started turning up, and even then the people who used  
>> cannabis did
>> not have anything to do with opiates, only psychedelics. It was  
>> after 1972,
>> returning to California, when I met people having returned from  
>> the Vietnam
>> war who were into Heroin. It was after that that I started hearing  
>> of deaths
>> of people who went to the same high school that I attended, dead  
>> from opiate
>> OD's. I don't understand [ or can't tolerate] the mindset of those  
>> who have
>> pushed the prohibition issue so far as to cause the integration of  
>> Heroin
>> with the usage of cannabis. That is how I perceive the state of  
>> affairs
>> regarding pot and Heroin 33 years ago [in the US]. If it wasn't  
>> for Nixon
>> and his gang of crooks, some of which hold great power in the US  
>> now, the
>> state of affairs that led to all the deaths of those high school
>> acquaintances might not have happened. Ibogaine might now be as  
>> common a
>> treatment as methadone by now. My opinion of course. I understand  
>> now there
>> is a supply problem, but that's a different discussion re: Ibogaine.
>> Peace and Best Regards,
>> Warren
>>
>>
>>
>> I wasn't so much addressing gov't policy as the politics of the  
>> legalization
>> movement, who should know better, but keep pushing the idea the  
>> idea that
>> addiction doesn't really exist because because they see any  
>> distinction
>> between soft and hard drugs as an impediment to across-the-board
>> legalization. If one of the distinctions is that harder drugs  
>> engender more
>> tolerance and withdrawal (or super-sensitization with stimulants),  
>> one
>> solution is to downplay such addictive effects.
>>
>> In this regard it is important to note that Peter Cohen, who is  
>> Dutch, is
>> opposed not just to ibogaine but  to separate coffeeshops for  
>> tokers. I was
>> surprised to find this out. At least he's consistently against  
>> anything that
>> limits the presence of coke and dope wherever there's cannabis and
>> psychedelics.
>>
>>
>> From:   digital at phantom.com
>> Subject: [Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle - Death  
>> Match @
>> 10PM No RuleZ!
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Dana Beal wrote:
>>
>> I suppose Peter Cohen is a figment of my imagination, then. Or  
>> that I was
>> the one who alienated him from ibogaine-- me, singlehandedly.
>>
>> Wow!
>>
>> ... <Etcetera> ...
>>
>> Uhm, okay...  Dana, here's the reply.
>>
>> I'm not touching all of the personality conflict crap, yet another  
>> time.
>> Been there, done that, and yeah ... much of it seems to be  
>> personal.  Case
>> in point: "The DPA Hates Ibogaine!"  Erm, no, Ethan Nadelman had a  
>> variety
>> of issues with you (Dana).
>>
>> I understand that many of these issues all stem from the endless  
>> attempt to
>> integrate ibogaine into <any given group's> agenda.  And, well, yeah,
>> ibogaine zealots do tend to upset various individuals who are part  
>> of groups
>> whose primary agenda is NOT ibogaine, "Look, we want to rant about  
>> SMOKING
>> POT.  Would you please shut the fuck up about the psychedelic that  
>> unsprings
>> junkies already?"  On the flipside of that, you have never, ever,  
>> shut up
>> about ibogaine, and at the end of the day, has more good than harm  
>> been
>> done?  Fuck yeah.  So, some people get bent out of shape, oh well,  
>> shit
>> happens.  <Shrug>
>>
>> Actually, Ethan doesn't want to rant exclusively about pot. The  
>> reason we
>> tried to influence DPA's agenda is that they're into both  
>> maintenance and
>> treatment (i.e: methadone AND heroin trials) for hard drug users.  
>> But the
>> influence of the "addiction as social construct" school of thought  
>> was too
>> strong, and I fell afoul of the taboo on criticizing methadone  
>> when I tried
>> to get Joyce Woods to get Howard and Sisko to change the ending of  
>> a report
>> on a meeting with NIDA (which we were required to submit  to ACT  
>> UP since
>> we'd taken their money) which conflated a quote from John Morgan  
>> with a
>> little anti-methadone editorializing by Sisko. Instead, her assistant
>> immediately faxed the single draft copy in existence to Morgan, which
>> provoked years of acrimony since Morgan was tight with Ernie  
>> Drucker (big
>> methadone advocate). The assistant turned out to be one of the  
>> squatters who
>> at that time were on a vendetta against myself, 9 Bleecker, and our
>> stewardship of the annual parade-- which they were angling to take  
>> over,
>> claiming we'd highjacked it on behalf of ibogaine.
>>
>> We STARTED the damn parade, fercrissakes!-- so in fact it was them  
>> that was
>> trying to highjack the parade claiming we were insufficiently pure  
>> in our
>> pot politix. Later the same faction packed the ACT UP meeting that  
>> voted 23
>> to 21 to expel CURES NOT WARS, and had no problem claiming to be  
>> against the
>> same annual parade in that changed context...
>>
>>
>>
>> Not all -- but MOST -- harm reduction/drug prohibition repeal/ 
>> activist
>> organizations that I have ever interacted with, were NOT anti- 
>> ibogaine.  And
>> most of the Epic Problems, could all be resolved by just picking  
>> up the
>> phone and talking with people, (i.e., the 2004 DPA conference  
>> where Ethan
>> mellowed out and dropped it.  "It" being 100% a personality  
>> conflict).
>> The harm reduction movement has more hands-on experience with  
>> druggies, so
>> naturally they're better than the policy wonks. But I disagree  
>> that the
>> problem is just personalities. For one thing, people have to feel  
>> that it's
>> politically necessary to take your phone call. And I note there  
>> was no
>> ibogaine panel at the next DPA conference after the one in New  
>> Jersey.
>>
>>
>> Peter Cohen is Peter Cohen (profound huh?).  If I were in the  
>> headspace of
>> being a life-long junkie or basehead who had been treated like sub- 
>> human
>> garbage my entire life, I too would likely think Peter Cohen Ph.D.  
>> was mY
>> Her0.  He treats hardcore drug users like human beings.  This is  
>> rare.  This
>> is correct.  And having been at the receiving end of what passes  
>> as "drug
>> treatment" in Western society, I too am filled with a great big,  
>> Go Fuck
>> Yourself, to nearly all "treatment professionals" I have ever come in
>> contact with.
>>
>> "Do we treat you, throw your ass in prison, or both?"  How 'bout:  
>> leave me
>> the fuck alone you hypocritical piece of shit.  I am a human being  
>> and have
>> the right to live with dignity -- instead of like a hunted animal,  
>> who will
>> be sentenced to torture the one time out of 1,000 I'm not aware  
>> enough,
>> burnt, tired, or just unlucky, and get to do cold turkey on a  
>> cement floor
>> in jail -- and attach whatever molecules I want to my receptors.   
>> You do not
>> have the right to judge me based upon what metabolites I am  
>> excreting in my
>> urine.
>> That's why our position, while favoring separate supply of soft  
>> drugs, is
>> complete decrim of personal use amounts of all drugs.
>>
>>
>> 'Course, the world ain't fair, what is and what should never be,  
>> and oh
>> well, we're back to: shit happens, try to deal.  People have  
>> pretty much
>> exactly the same rights, everywhere.  You have the right to  
>> survive, thrive,
>> prosper, and experience happiness (whatever that means to you).   
>> Depending
>> on the space/place/time, all of that can be compressed down to:  
>> you have the
>> right to survive.  All else is paying lip service to higher ideals.
>>
>> Peter Cohen is necessary in order to balance this particular plane of
>> existence within the multiverse.
>>
>> Having said all that, there isn't anybody I know (or have even  
>> heard of),
>> that's LISTENING to anything Peter Cohen has to say.  "I see,  
>> well, that's
>> very special.  Thanks for your insights!  We'll get right on  
>> that.  The
>> door's over there, don't let it slam you in the ass on the way  
>> out."  Peter
>> Cohen thrives under the relatively mellow and liberal drug policy  
>> of the
>> Netherlands.  Aside from the fact that the, "War on Drugs," is an  
>> illusion,
>> and has nothing to do with drugs, and everything to do with money,  
>> power,
>> and control; nobody in a position of power with the ability to  
>> affect change
>> and influence drug policy, is anxiously awaiting Peter's opinions.
>>
>> I talked with him at length before and after the New Orleans  
>> conference, he
>> was very polite, respectful and ... kind to me (perhaps dopefiends  
>> -- former
>> or otherwise -- get special treatment, I dunno) he had no problems  
>> with
>> ibogaine per se; he has a big problem with the entire concept of  
>> addiction
>> as a disease or abnormal condition that should be fixed or cured.
>>
>> Once again, intellectually speaking, he is absolutely correct  
>> about nearly
>> everything he has to say ... that, and a dollar will buy you a cup  
>> of coffee
>> <Shrug>.
>> Peter Cohen is just an exponent of an idea-- at least the exponent  
>> we've
>> dealt  with. It's the concept and the movement around it that I'm  
>> concerned
>> about here. Most of them never attend ibogaine events (minds made  
>> up-- don't
>> confuse me with facts) anyway, and we're not featured at their  
>> events, so
>> there's little interaction. I'm talking about hardcore libertarian
>> legalizers-- Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP), Drug Reform
>> Coordination Network (DRCnet), and the biggie, Drug Policy  
>> Alliance, which
>> puts on the major annual conference every other year, alternating  
>> with HRC,
>> who's doing it this year, and having a major ibogaine panel,  
>> unlike last
>> year's DPA conference in Long Beach, CA.
>>
>> But remember, what brought this up was that MPP, under Kampia, has  
>> been
>> conspicuously funding LEAP and DRCnet with MPP largesse (but not DPA,
>> because he and Ethan hate each other, since he stole Peter B.  
>> Lewis as a
>> funder from Ethan). I was trying to explain that there was never  
>> much of a
>> chance of getting an MPP grant to put on ibogaine forums not  
>> because Kampia
>> finds me unpleasant, but because he's not exactly an intellectual  
>> giant,
>> just some one triangulating their way around a scene where others  
>> like
>> Nadelman have already set the agenda.
>>
>> I'm told he owes his position to his success in procuring women  
>> for his
>> mentor, Peter Lewis.
>>
>>
>> Our little tribe has always been, and always will, until the end.   
>> No, wait,
>> somebody already said that.  Well yeah ... but then, who the fuck  
>> else is
>> really going to care about a "psychedelic" that unsprings  
>> dopefiends and
>> crackheads?  We are ... an extremely marginalized demographic at  
>> the fringes
>> of society/culture/medicine.
>>
>> Should it be like this?  No.  So then, what do we do, nothing?   
>> Fuck that
>> noise, I will not shut up; EVER.  But then, most of us do what we  
>> do for a
>> variety of complex reasons, ascribing any one person's motivations  
>> as purely
>> altruistic, emotional, or self-serving, never really works out.   
>> On any
>> given day, at any particular juncture in time, it spins full  
>> cycle.  Why do
>> we do this shit ... because ... it has resonance, meaning,  
>> purpose, and ...
>> it's the right thing to do.  If it's not, well, drop it and go find
>> something else to do.
>>
>> There have been massive changes in access to ibogaine, awareness  
>> that it
>> exists, and availability of treatment in the last decade.  But, ya  
>> know, if
>> you know any straight people -- or nevermind straights; how 'bout:  
>> any given
>> do0d who likes to smoke blunts -- and explain all this to 'em, the  
>> overall
>> response will be total apathy.  "That's nice, who cares.  I wonder  
>> what's on
>> TV."
>>
>> As for everything else...  I have absolutely no doubt that "my"  
>> government
>> is completely full of shit and lies about everything.  This is in  
>> line with
>> the actual purpose of government, which happens to be: to perpetuate
>> itself.  The End.  The FDA should be an advisory NOT a regulatory  
>> agency,
>> and NIDA is ... <cough> <cough> <cough>.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> All is well with the universe though.  Much like LSD, ibogaine just
>> continues to "work" (I guess nobody has pulled it aside and  
>> explained it
>> requires further study, funding, patentable second and third- 
>> generation
>> derivatives, clinical trials, rescheduling, and FDA approval).
>>
>> Try not to take it all personally, it is Kali Yuga and this cycle  
>> of time is
>> scheduled to go down the cosmic garbage disposal Any Minute Now.   
>> (Give or
>> take 427,000 years.  It seems Vedic Scholars have some differences of
>> opinion there (what're the odds?!?!!?)  "Obviously, I am a  
>> thousand times as
>> virtuous and humble as thou art...  So, you should shut the fuck  
>> up and
>> listen to me, you idiot.")
>>
>> At the end of the day...  Have you done what was possible to help  
>> people
>> that needed it?  Yes.  Have some of them crawled out of the  
>> wreckage and
>> reintegrated?  Yes.  Is awareness growing?  Yes.  Has availability
>> increased?  Yes.  Have people who were fucked, got unsprung, and  
>> then fallen
>> again, at least glimpsed something very rare called HOPE?  Yes.   
>> Are more
>> activist organizations aware of ibogaine than ever before?  Yes.   
>> Do YOU
>> (Dana) have a lot to do with that?  Fuck yeah.  Is all of this  
>> heading
>> towards that mythical memetic intersection called the Tipping  
>> Point?  I
>> believe so.  Is each and every one of us doing all we can to make  
>> the world
>> a better place for differently-abled, left-handed, drug-dependent,
>> homosexual puppies who are also minority gang members?  I sure  
>> hope so!
>> Rock the fuck out, and God Bless Us all, everyone.
>>
>> It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
>>
>> Patrick
>> I also believe the ibogaine movement is growing by leaps and  
>> bounds--because
>> it ibogaine actually does something--while the movement to  
>> legalize coke and
>> dope has remained fairly static for the last ten years in spite of  
>> having
>> bigger backers and more celebrity recognition. Despite distancing  
>> itself
>> from "the (hippie) activists," MPP is losing most its expensive  
>> initiatives
>> to change the pot laws.
>>
>> The one exception, SAFER--a couple of younger guys who got the  
>> voters in
>> Denver to pass a non-binding vote to make pot the lowest police  
>> priority by
>> highlighting the problem of binge drinking among college students--is
>> actually a dumbed-down version of the separation of hard/soft  
>> drugs again
>> that CURES NOT WARS has been pushing from the get-go. It is  
>> interesting to
>> note that the Dutch Model is finally opening up to ibogaine (see  
>> Fromberg in
>> the recent NOVA special on Dutch TV); but the more experienced,
>> sophisticated voices that could articulate that are not on the  
>> gravy train
>> with SAFER because MPP makes point of dismissing folks like myself  
>> and
>> Howard as a bunch of has-beens with nothing to offer.
>>
>>
>>
>> From:   nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Morning Wood [mailto:morning_wood263 at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: 19 August 2006 21:25
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry for interrupting, as I get some of the
>> underlying issues at the core of a lack of a
>> simplified message.
>>
>> Dana,  To not be able to find some workable consensus
>> on people who all think 'Prohibition is a failed
>> policy' speaks volumes on your diplomatic skills.  On
>> the other hand, if you weren't so, what's the
>> word...you, then allot wouldn't have happened.  Who
>> could have planned how things have developed in the
>> last 10 years.
>>
>> I asked a question inquiring about talking points
>> someone could refer to about harm-reduction since the
>> main financier for Perry (R-Texas) is Bob Perry from
>> Perry homes, Who is of the main motto
>>
>> "strengthen the familiy."  So how does Harm Reduction
>> Strengthen the familiy"?????
>>
>> I understand how it drains our resources from
>> education (how we will complete in the future) and
>>
>> how terrorism funds are being drained from prohibition
>> that isn't designed to succeed, their very job depends
>> on it.
>>
>> I've seen how prohibition makes no sense at all, I've
>> seen it drain the life out of good people in cells
>> next to me, surrounded by violent criminals, I see the
>> corruption that goes right back up to the board rooms
>> of Prison Complexes and DEA jobs.  I see history that
>> states that the way to get opium suppression off the
>> ground was to deal in opium.
>> But division is not what is needed.
>> Consence is. (and spell check)
>>
>> It was my experience that somewhere around 1994, folks around Ethan
>> Nadelman, who were taking the position that I had crossed the line  
>> by taking
>> the name of john Morgan in vain, stopped talking to CNW. Diplomacy  
>> with
>> people who won't talk to you is kind of impossible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick,
>>     I'm just curious how you see yourself.  Also what
>> is the difference between splitting open the head and
>> causing schizophrenic tendencies during a psychedelic
>> treatment?
>>
>>
>> Hi MW,
>>
>> Are you saying I'm schizophrenic? Just checking. How I see myself?  
>> I don't
>> know really. I find self-definition a bit limiting. I think there are
>> personality tests these days which tell you how your personality  
>> is in
>> certain areas. About "splitting open the head" I think it just  
>> means to
>> break through the routine defences of the ego and allowed  
>> repressed material
>> into the conscious mind, but this is just my opinion. It may mean  
>> something
>> completely different. About schizophrenia, I think it can be seen  
>> as a
>> defensive posture. Some authorities believe it to be pathological  
>> and others
>> learned. If there is excessive repressed material in the psyche it  
>> can take
>> on it's own personality and at times appear to "take over" the  
>> individual,
>> giving them the appearance of having a dual personality, or to  
>> cause them to
>> believe that they are communicating with another realm. I would  
>> say that
>> tendencies towards schizophrenia would be increased by  
>> psychoactive usage,
>> but this is just personal opinion. Is it similar to splitting open  
>> the head?
>> Well, it depends on what is released by the splitting. Really, I  
>> think the
>> "splitting" metaphor is a bit excessive anyway.
>>
>> Personally, I think Dana does a good job with promoting ibogaine.  
>> He's been
>> the main man for a long time and it's great someone has the energy  
>> to take
>> this cause on long term. Mine goes up and down a bit.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> From:   nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana at phantom.com]
>> Sent: 19 August 2006 23:12
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2006, at 5:00 PM, Dave Brockman wrote:
>>
>> Dope message about the whole war on drugs shit, well said. All of
>> which goes back to the one sentence I wrote on the whole dana beal
>> against almost everybody in the world (who is in theory on our  
>> "side"!
>> I'm not talking prohibitionists or the evil empire or angry old men,
>> I'm talking about the peeps who see the world mostly the same), since
>> his only reply was 15 more long paragraphs venting about whatev,
>>
>> DANA why do you spend so much of your time, effort, energy, trying so
>> hard to alienate peeps who are on our side!?!?!? WTF is wrong with  
>> you?
>> you have ranted about Rob Kampia here endlessly in the last months  
>> and
>> he liked the ibogaine conf, supported the SSDP and Tyler Case in
>> having it at Columbia and showed up to the friggin thing personally.
>>
>> Excuse me: Rob Kampia did not and will not give a cent to support  
>> ibogaine
>> forums, no matter what the local SSDP at Columbia does. And SSDP  
>> didn't come
>> up with any funding either. It was all Cures not Wars. But I was  
>> initially
>> hopeful, because Rob did show up for half of Dr. Ken's  
>> presentation That's
>> why I wanted a little clarification before I turned the raw tapes  
>> from the
>> forum over to Kampia....
>>
>>
>> Dana Rob Kampia may have a problem with <b>YOU</b>, but it looks like
>> almost everybody in drug reform does. That's <b>YOU</b> he has probs
>> with Dana, not ibogaine. Try to separate the two, everytime someone
>> gets sick of you acting like a maniac you write these huge conspiracy
>> against ibogaine messages everywhere, when in fact it sounds like
>> they're sick of you going psycho on them. I'ts personal, it's
>> <b>YOU</b> not ibo. Face it and mebbe stop acting like such a dick
>> when it's not needed, I repeat it again, WTF is the point of working
>> so hard to alienate peeps who were on the same page  in the first
>> place???
>>
>> -broc
>>
>>
>> Excuse me: calling and leaving polite messages asking for a call  
>> back 3
>> times in two months is not going psycho. (The head of NORML  
>> returns my
>> calls, BTW, even if it takes him a week.) When I did finally email  
>> Rob and
>> explain some of my trepidation, and just asked for a dialog, HE  
>> went crazy
>> on ME, replying that I should never call or email him again. Then  
>> Peter
>> Lewis's nephew, Donny Wirtschafter, confirmed that a) Kampia was  
>> dodging me
>> because he doesn't have to balls or guts to deal with people who  
>> aren't
>> completely syncophantic cause they're angling for a grant, b) MPP  
>> would only
>> give money to younger, more compliant grantees, and c) anyway, MPP  
>> wasn't
>> EVER going to give money for ibo-activism, presumably because of  
>> Peter B.
>> Lewis.
>>
>>
>> I suppose Peter Cohen is a figment of my imagination, then. Or that I
>> was the one who alienated him from ibogaine-- me, singlehandedly.
>>
>>
>> Personally, I don't know so much about Rob K and Tyler and these  
>> guys. I'm
>> not connected to the US scene and only tangentially to the  
>> European one.
>> But, Peter Cohen is a twat of the first order, if you ask me. He's  
>> stuck in
>> his mind and out there operating in this intellectual fantasy  
>> land, running
>> down treatments like ibogaine. To me that's a serious fucking drag  
>> and I
>> support the guy getting enough feedback so that he can start to  
>> realize what
>> it is that his stance, and the people following it, are actually  
>> creating.
>> When I've put this out to him, my feeling was that he couldn't  
>> take it in.
>> He couldn't let go of his perfect little theory and examine the  
>> possibility
>> that it could actually be extending suffering.
>>
>> Nick
>> Right on that score-- except that it's not just Peter Cohen, but a  
>> whole
>> faction of the legalization movement. The way I put it is that  
>> they'd rather
>> win their perfect argument than actually legalize any drugs.
>>
>>
>>
>> From:   davebroc at gmail.com
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Eco Man and the Peter Cohen Principle -  
>> Death Match
>> @ 10PM No RuleZ!
>>
>> Bro thanks for this, lot of perspective on everything. I will lay off
>> of Dana, it's not my mission in life to bag on his actions but I do
>> want to point out that this is what you always do, you protect  
>> Dana or
>> take his side or say something funny that's true and it makes people
>> think and they get off Dana's back. You're great at communicating but
>> you know no matter how funny or smart you are it does not change that
>> he an...
>>
>> [Message clipped]
>
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