[Ibogaine] and the system(Randy)

Paul Brookshaw jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk
Tue Oct 31 18:12:12 EST 2006




>From: "Carlton B" <hokkaidocrow at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and the system(Randy)
>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 08:08:36 -0500
>
>I've never been to a 12-step group but from reading these posts, they sound
>like cults.   It's very saddening.   It sounds like they consider it more
>important that you follow their plan than actually get results.   I guess
>that's not so different than many other things in the world.
>
>On 10/28/06, Matthew Shriver <Matt at itsupport.net> wrote:
>>
>>  I started going back to meetings at 4 days post ibogaine and if it 
>>wasn't
>>for NA I seriously doubt I would have stayed clean. And I didn't make any
>>effort to hide the fact that I got clean with ibogaine, but when I talked
>>about it people mostly just found it a curiosity and few people had any
>>interest in hearing any details.  At 2 years clean when I started talking 
>>to
>>people openly about taking ibogaine again for depression, no-one thought 
>>it
>>was a good idea.  And by that time everyone I knew and spent any amount of
>>time with was in NA, so I mean it when I say no-one.  Even friends who had
>>seen me use and then seen me turn it around with ibogaine didn't think I
>>should do it again.  They all have the same prejudice prior to
>>investigation.  Ibogaine is a drug, ergo it is to be avoided like the 
>>plague
>>and anyone who takes it is using.  At 2 and ½ years clean I took ibogaine
>>for depression and it worked for me at the time.  But having been clean 
>>for
>>2 and half years I had forgotten how powerfully mind altering anything 
>>could
>>be much less how much ibo is and so when I was on it I thought to myself,
>>"anything this strong must be using."  So while I didn't regret taking it,
>>since my depression was lifted, I still announced in meetings that I had
>>taken a drug (I did not specify which one, but I gave some details like 
>>that
>>I had used it to get clean, that it was a hallucinogen, etc…) and that I 
>>was
>>changing my clean date.  But I also said that I felt this drug was 
>>different
>>and that I did not regret it in the least and for that I caught shit after
>>the meetings from old timers.  I meet with a group of men every Thursday 
>>and
>>everyone in the group is either in NA or AA but it is not a twelve step
>>meeting.  We just get together and share about what's going on in our 
>>lives
>>and give each other feedback.  Anyway I have always been open with these
>>guys (and other people in recovery as well as my family) about ibogaine 
>>and
>>what my plans have been.  So anyway after another two months or so I felt 
>>it
>>was a mistake to change my clean date.  I don't think that the way I have
>>taken ibogaine has been anything like the way I have taken other drugs.
>>There has been careful consideration and planning involved, I didn't 
>>simply
>>take it as soon as it was in my hands, I took it under specific
>>circumstances.  I let people know all about it even when I knew they were
>>going to be dead set against it.  I did not attempt to sneak or hide it in
>>the least.  That is not using the way I understand using.  But when I 
>>shared
>>at a meeting that I felt that my changing my clean date was a mistake and
>>the reasons I thought so, once again I caught shit for it from some 
>>people.
>>So about 7 months after that I found myself once again depressed and
>>considering ibogaine.  But this time when I talked to people about it I
>>didn't take it the NA community as a whole, I just shared with the guys in
>>the Thursday night group and with people who I trust.  And when I chose to
>>do it again they were the ones I talked to about it.  Some of them think I
>>should change my clean date again, some think I should change it back to 
>>the
>>original date of 3 and ½ years ago now.  Some think I should just live 
>>with
>>the choice I made and leave it where it is just to avoid having to make
>>explanations to the rest of NA.  It is absolutely true that there are
>>judgmental self-rightous idiots in NA.  But why wouldn't there be, they 
>>have
>>them everywhere else after all.  I share the sentiment that NA and AA too
>>should be more open minded about ibogaine but I also understand that if 
>>they
>>open that door, then what happens with ayahuasca and who they hell knows
>>what else?  I don't think that is something any of the twelve step 
>>programs
>>want to deal with.  Easier to keep the door closed on all of them then 
>>have
>>to figure out where to draw the line.  It will be interesting to see how 
>>the
>>issue evolves over time though with more and more people taking ibogaine 
>>to
>>get clean.
>>
>>Matt
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>>*From:* BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com]
>>*Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2006 1:34 PM
>>*To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>*Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] and the system(Randy)
>>
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 10/28/2006 2:57:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk writes:
>>
>>He said. "Oh, that's cheating man. We don't swap one drug for another and
>>I
>>don't take mind altering substances, but you do look well.
>>
>>  Yep, been there done that. It was like a month after being treated for
>>methadone addiction and I went to my old home group in Erie PA. (I did get 
>>a
>>few things outta AA I must admit) It was a gratitude meeting and I stood 
>>up
>>and said I was grateful for the Bwiti tribe in Africa showing us the way
>>with Iboga and Ibogaine and it went over like a fart in a scuba tank. You
>>could hear a pin drop in there. I guess they figured I had finally
>>completely lost it. I had been going to that group for like 6 years off 
>>and
>>on, mostly on oxycontin  LOL  Anyway, I told my first sponsor about the
>>Ibogaine and how I had quit drinking for 6 years but I had never stopped
>>talking opiates, I was just never honest about it and I finally can be 
>>now,
>>he said the same thing to me. "We don't take drugs to get off of drugs." I
>>tried to explain to him about Bill W. doing acid in search of this effect
>>and he just pissed on it. I aint been back there since. I think if Bill W.
>>were alive today he would be all for it. O well, the narrow minded can 
>>just
>>stew in their disease, me, I'm going to do what ever it takes. I have 
>>fucked
>>up with alcohol a few times in the past couple of years but I aint givin'
>>up. I'll do another treatment too, it's just hard to talk myself into it, 
>>if
>>you know what I mean. I think you do. Ibogaine may be a mind altering
>>substance but it's a life changing substance too. It's medicine.
>>
>>         Peace Love and Solidarity        Randy
>>

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