[Ibogaine] and the system(Randy)

Carlton B hokkaidocrow at gmail.com
Sun Oct 29 08:08:36 EST 2006

I've never been to a 12-step group but from reading these posts, they sound
like cults.   It's very saddening.   It sounds like they consider it more
important that you follow their plan than actually get results.   I guess
that's not so different than many other things in the world.

On 10/28/06, Matthew Shriver <Matt at itsupport.net> wrote:
>  I started going back to meetings at 4 days post ibogaine and if it wasn't
> for NA I seriously doubt I would have stayed clean. And I didn't make any
> effort to hide the fact that I got clean with ibogaine, but when I talked
> about it people mostly just found it a curiosity and few people had any
> interest in hearing any details.  At 2 years clean when I started talking to
> people openly about taking ibogaine again for depression, no-one thought it
> was a good idea.  And by that time everyone I knew and spent any amount of
> time with was in NA, so I mean it when I say no-one.  Even friends who had
> seen me use and then seen me turn it around with ibogaine didn't think I
> should do it again.  They all have the same prejudice prior to
> investigation.  Ibogaine is a drug, ergo it is to be avoided like the plague
> and anyone who takes it is using.  At 2 and ½ years clean I took ibogaine
> for depression and it worked for me at the time.  But having been clean for
> 2 and half years I had forgotten how powerfully mind altering anything could
> be much less how much ibo is and so when I was on it I thought to myself,
> "anything this strong must be using."  So while I didn't regret taking it,
> since my depression was lifted, I still announced in meetings that I had
> taken a drug (I did not specify which one, but I gave some details like that
> I had used it to get clean, that it was a hallucinogen, etc…) and that I was
> changing my clean date.  But I also said that I felt this drug was different
> and that I did not regret it in the least and for that I caught shit after
> the meetings from old timers.  I meet with a group of men every Thursday and
> everyone in the group is either in NA or AA but it is not a twelve step
> meeting.  We just get together and share about what's going on in our lives
> and give each other feedback.  Anyway I have always been open with these
> guys (and other people in recovery as well as my family) about ibogaine and
> what my plans have been.  So anyway after another two months or so I felt it
> was a mistake to change my clean date.  I don't think that the way I have
> taken ibogaine has been anything like the way I have taken other drugs.
> There has been careful consideration and planning involved, I didn't simply
> take it as soon as it was in my hands, I took it under specific
> circumstances.  I let people know all about it even when I knew they were
> going to be dead set against it.  I did not attempt to sneak or hide it in
> the least.  That is not using the way I understand using.  But when I shared
> at a meeting that I felt that my changing my clean date was a mistake and
> the reasons I thought so, once again I caught shit for it from some people.
> So about 7 months after that I found myself once again depressed and
> considering ibogaine.  But this time when I talked to people about it I
> didn't take it the NA community as a whole, I just shared with the guys in
> the Thursday night group and with people who I trust.  And when I chose to
> do it again they were the ones I talked to about it.  Some of them think I
> should change my clean date again, some think I should change it back to the
> original date of 3 and ½ years ago now.  Some think I should just live with
> the choice I made and leave it where it is just to avoid having to make
> explanations to the rest of NA.  It is absolutely true that there are
> judgmental self-rightous idiots in NA.  But why wouldn't there be, they have
> them everywhere else after all.  I share the sentiment that NA and AA too
> should be more open minded about ibogaine but I also understand that if they
> open that door, then what happens with ayahuasca and who they hell knows
> what else?  I don't think that is something any of the twelve step programs
> want to deal with.  Easier to keep the door closed on all of them then have
> to figure out where to draw the line.  It will be interesting to see how the
> issue evolves over time though with more and more people taking ibogaine to
> get clean.
> Matt
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2006 1:34 PM
> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] and the system(Randy)
> In a message dated 10/28/2006 2:57:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk writes:
> He said. "Oh, that's cheating man. We don't swap one drug for another and
> I
> don't take mind altering substances, but you do look well.
>  Yep, been there done that. It was like a month after being treated for
> methadone addiction and I went to my old home group in Erie PA. (I did get a
> few things outta AA I must admit) It was a gratitude meeting and I stood up
> and said I was grateful for the Bwiti tribe in Africa showing us the way
> with Iboga and Ibogaine and it went over like a fart in a scuba tank. You
> could hear a pin drop in there. I guess they figured I had finally
> completely lost it. I had been going to that group for like 6 years off and
> on, mostly on oxycontin  LOL  Anyway, I told my first sponsor about the
> Ibogaine and how I had quit drinking for 6 years but I had never stopped
> talking opiates, I was just never honest about it and I finally can be now,
> he said the same thing to me. "We don't take drugs to get off of drugs." I
> tried to explain to him about Bill W. doing acid in search of this effect
> and he just pissed on it. I aint been back there since. I think if Bill W.
> were alive today he would be all for it. O well, the narrow minded can just
> stew in their disease, me, I'm going to do what ever it takes. I have fucked
> up with alcohol a few times in the past couple of years but I aint givin'
> up. I'll do another treatment too, it's just hard to talk myself into it, if
> you know what I mean. I think you do. Ibogaine may be a mind altering
> substance but it's a life changing substance too. It's medicine.
>         Peace Love and Solidarity        Randy
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