[Ibogaine] correction

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Sat Oct 21 15:10:26 EDT 2006


Something I'd like to just chip in to this long saga is that EVERYTHING
FLOWS OUT OF COMMITMENT! Dana has commitment. People have judgments about
him, lots of them. It doesn't really matter because he has mastered the
single most transformational skill in the universe - he can commit 100%. And
from this you can do anything. There's always the politics and...you have to
do it this way because if you don't then she won't listen, etc, etc, yawn,
yawn. I don't believe any of that stuff finally matters a shit. It doesn't
matter how talented, skillful, special, or beautiful you are or think you
are. What matters is that you can commit to something 100% and just do it.
And this Dana does.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana at phantom.com]
  Sent: 20 October 2006 00:55
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
  Cc: don at hempery.com; eco Man; AJ Weberman; askedr at aol.com
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] correction

  Not to be tendencious, but the following posts were so far off the mark
that to leave them out there unresponded-to would not only leave the wrong
implression, but would chance an outcome where permanent misinformation of
the List might result.

  In reply to Patrick Kroupa, Dave Brockman wrote:
    Dog, much respect and understood. I haven't continued the thread and
    will just drop it. All of this began by asking a real simple question,
    which was why did Dana go so far out of his way to totally alienate
    Rob Kampia. Rob showed up for the ibo forum, he was into it. He left
    because Ken Alper is boring and it's not that likely that MPP is ever
    going to fund ibogaine anything and Rob does control Lewis' money,
    which is upsetting to a lot of peeps, including the DPA and every
    other cannabis activist org. But you know Rob went out and got the
    money in the first place, it's not like Lewis was a real big donator
    of funds to any counter culture causes even back like 5 years ago,
    it's all very recent. It's real hard to attack Rob for going out and
    getting himself his own funding, that's brand new even.

  So far as I know yr time line is off. When Kampia snagged Lewis from
Nadelman, it was a seismic event which sent shockwaves through the
legalization movement. It not only cut off Nadelman's major source of
funding (after Richard Dennis lost a lot of money on the futures market), it
cut off NORML, which Nadelman had just co-opted to bolster his pre-eminence
as THE guy the NYTIMES likes to quote. Nadelman did this by engineering a
coup ousting  the old board containing  Al Byrnes and Marylynn Mathre (now
Patients out of Time) as too counter-cultural, and bringing back Keith
Stroup from disgrace (Stroup having torpedoed Jimmy Carter's Drug Czar, Dr.
Peter Bourne, by revealing to an assistant of Jack Anderson that they'd done
coke together).

  The person who persuaded Peter Lewis to switch horses was his nephew, Don
Wirtschafter, who was pissed because Keith threw him off the NORML board.

    I know Dana is Dana, I know he's your friend and you've known him
    since you were 12 or 13 or whatever, I can read, it's all online. All
    of this was escaleted by Dana who responded to the question, which btw
    included you biscuitboy, agreeing with me when I first asked it.

    I never said I was representing SSDP, that's something that's come
    back to me that Dana is asking peeps, that's all Dana, not me, never
    said that or even said anything implying it.

    No I'm not 'top hat' ;-) that was Nicky! I was the one sitting one
    over from Top Hat ;-)

    It's cool patrick, even if Dana posts another 30 paragraph rant in
    reply to this, I won't bother picking it up. Maybe someone else will,
    but like I have said at least 10 times, I really do have respect for
    the bro, I know Dana does a lot of good, I know who he is, everybody
    does, what I asked was why does he waste so much of his effort,
    undoing what he's done by throwing fits and spazzing out, dissing
    peeps, for no reason. Don't see the up side to any of that, but it's
    his prob, nobody else's.


  Dave, if you truly don't want to dialog, that is unfortunate. Look, I
wasn't getting through to Kampia on the phone, and against my better
judgement, on the recommendation of Vallerie VandePanne, I tried email. What
I was trying to get, if I was going to turn over the raw tape of the entire
conference--for free--was some assurances of better treatment in the future.
Because there are real issues about how Rob treats other cannabis-related
networks, like the Global March, and how MPP is interacting with Cures not
Wars on both the ibo and medical marijusna issues.

  All I was trying to do was get the guy to TALK. (Alan St. Pierre, the new
head of NORML, returns my phone calls, even if it takes a week. I think
that's perfectly acceptable. )

  You have characterized that email as hate speech, but look at it,
paragraph by paragraph--

  From: rkampia at mpp.org
  Subject: Re: video of ibogaine forum


  Your e-mail message is rude -- and for no good reason.  Please do not
write or call me.

  Rob Kampia, Executive Director
  Marijuana Policy Project
  P.O. Box 77492, Washington, D.C. 20013
  202-462-5747 ext. 271 (phone), 202-232-0442 (fax)
  RKampia at mpp.org, http://www.mpp.org

  Please visit http://www.mpp.org/subscribe to sign up for MPP's free e-mail

  On Apr 25, 2006, at 8:34 PM, Dana Beal wrote:

  > I am disinclined to give you the raw footage without proper editing.
Frankly, I'm a little confused by yr sudden interest in ibogaine. >We have
never discussed it, and you guys have a history of setting up phony
organizations to take all the credit and resources away >from grass roots
activists who have labored long and hard in the trenches just when they are
on the verge of success.

  This part is true, and repeats criticisms that that are well-known, and
originate with former NORML head Dick Cohen. It explains the grounds for
reluctance do anything without talking first. All we're looking for is some
assurances. Ibogaine IS on the verge of success, BTW.

  > You must admit the inside-the-beltway drug policy wonks have been pretty
hostile to our movement -- see Phil Smith's coverage >of this year's Million
Marijuana March in this week's DRCnet.

  And here's the opening for Rob to write back saying that if others are
hostile, he's not.

  > We prefer to maintain the MMM and Cures not Wars as a platform
independent of this kind of bullshit so that we can propagate our >message
of a public health oriented, harm reduction approach to non-injection drug
use, including ibogaine.

  This boilerplate is essentially an indirect plea for a political alliance,
since if we're independent, that means we're not aligned with the folks who
want Rob's scalp.

  > A couple of days ago, when I tried to call you on the phone you had some
flack call me back and ask if they could help me, >because you were too busy
to talk to me about ibogaine and its potential role in the movement. I told
them that I was perfectly >willing to wait until you could take my call.

  This gets down to the nub of what I want to discuss--the ways in which
ibogaine helps the cause of cannabis, which the Stroups and Nadelmans have
simply failed to see.

  > Email is not a good way to communicate, and I realize this message may
come off as brusque. A phone conversation would be >much more sensitive, I'm

  So here"s the first apology.

  > (BTW, I do believe now that it was NYU, and not you, who set up the
forum obstensibly about Giuliani's quality of life crackdown on >marijuana
which turned out to be about HEA Reform and Tulia Texas--a classic case of
bait & switch, if there ever was one. I >wouldn't even have tuirned up there
with the crowd I brought (yr only audience) if some one hadn't covered my
door with flyers for >it. It was a little insensitive of you to show up at
all for a venue that had banned the local movement outright, but I am
convinced >you were being used by NYU in their attempts isolate us. You will
be happy to know that finally, after 10 years, we are being given
>Washington Square Park for one hour before our march to commemorate Stew
Albert, the Yippie founder who recently died due to >the complications of
hepatitis he caught from a dirty needle. We recently have noticed that hep C
patients actually do better on >ibogaine than interferon. Ibogaine could
have helped prolong Stew's life--which is a drag, since he was one the board
of our Yippie >Museum. Too bad the legalization movement suppressed the very
existence of ibogaine all these years because Ethan et al thought >it was a
threat to their pet heroin trials.)
  > Dana/cnw

  And here's the second apology, along with some criticism of Nadelman Rob
might sympathize with (since Ethan is leading the charge to cut him off from
Lewis) along with one of the parallels of ibo and cannabis (they're both
good for hep C) that I'd point out if Rob was willing to be briefed further.

  Suffice it to say he didn't go for it. Probably because he WAS uptight
about that night at NYU. At least I got a response I could show to people
who want to know what the problem is-- that Kampia won't talk, period. He
wasn't talking before, and he isn't talking afterwards. So nothing changed.
Pity. Count the lines. 3 lines of criticism. 4 lines appealing for sympathy.
3 lines of specific complaint asking to just TALK about ibogaine and how it
furthers the cause of cannabis. 12 lines apologizing for bothering him at
all. That's 6 lines of criticism and complaint vs. 16 lines of apology and

  Doesn't sound like hate speech to me.

  Eric Priest wrote:
    Patrick  - yawn - defending his crazed old friend. For the how manyth
time? That is what a decent friend should do. It’s rather cute. And money is

    Dana, acting anything other than diplomatic or coherent. SHOCKING! No
one has ever heard of such a thing. And – snore - Howard and Deb fighting…

    Say it ain’t so.

    The possibilities are endless, all the way from either to or with Dana.
Conspiracies are much too much fun to ignore.

    Either: Dana is a shill for the man. He’s down with the cops or has some
MK-Ultra gig going and is merely a tool for keeping ibo lost in the
netherworld. With a friend like him, who needs government suppression? This
would explain his never becoming a baanzi. Good narcs don’t taste.

  Sorry. You weren't paying attention. I recently took some Indra for a
fungoid lung infection, and referred to it on-list.  6 hrs of motion
sickness and puking. The next morning, however, no shortness of breath.
(Afterwards I read how iboga blocks the enzymes candidiasis uses to break
down cell walls.)

  The charge here is that I'm such a controversial figure that folks from
the DPA et al boycott any forums I organize and that having me in any
prominent role blocks other sponsors from becoming involved.

  I say this is a typical case of shooting the messager who brings bad
news-- except that in this case the news isn't even all bad.

  I say Ibogaine has a problem in the the leglization movement (DPA, DRCnet,
LEAP) and with the hierarchies of established national organiztions  (NORML,
MPP, ASA) but not grassroots, local groups in the Pot Movement. Ibogaine is
gaining increasing respect in the psychedelic community (MAPS, Mindstates,
the Ayahuasca Churchs) as folks come to see that in fact ibo does something
their stuff just doesn' do.  And Ibogaine has broken through with the Harm
Reduction Coalition (HRC, Meth Summit) and is making great strides, with
major panels being planned in both Oakland and Salt Lake City. All because
of personal interaction between Allan Clear and Dimitri Mougainis I might

  Narcs don't usually go to the trouble of organizing panels at conferences.
Conferences, I might note, that are not solely sponsored by CNW or affiliate
groups, yet have me as one of the presenters.

    Or: Dana is touched. Years of being the lessor known sidekick of Abbie
Hoffman and the lack of recognition for the very... uhm, significant work of
late model yippies has taken it’s toll. The smell of cat urine has gone to
his brain. His last grasp for fame lay in a root of which he refuses to
partake, causing torn and frayed behavior. A wounded animal, snarling and
licking his wounds; dangerous. The seams are coming apart. The last gagging
breath of the yippies is having trouble breathing. A lack of oxygen is
causing the pesky voices in his head to get a little louder. Never pretty,
but comedy isn’t. Who wouldn’t act a little out of sorts under such
conditions? Of course we need to show compassion. Thank you Patrick.

  I wish Abbie was around , Stewie too. Both of them were better than the
straight lefties who've since appointed themselves protectors of Abbie's
legacy with the chief aim of trying to take the drugs out of "sex, drugs and
rock 'n roll." That is, trying to remake Abbie as a straight leftist who
never opposed the drug war or supported legalization (or got busted for
coke) but only worked for civil rights and opposed Vietnam and the contra
war. Trying to pretend that the 3rd plank of Abbie's platform in '68 wasn't
both legalization of pot and psychedelics and decrim of narcotics-- I guess
nobody actually reads STEAL THIS BOOK any more.

  I remember Abbie telling Clark Kissinger and a meeting of Refuse and
Resist that if they were sincere in opposing the drug war,  they had to
start with the legalization of pot, so I don't thing his position ever
changed. And since he also started TAP and  went around selling  blueboxes,
it's only natural that Patrick and I should be connected under the big
Yippie umbrella.

  Thing is, Abbie was told about Ibogaine-- he could read about it in
OVERTHROW-- but I am certain that I tried to convince him of the centrality
of ibogaine to what was going to happen next.  But he couldn't get his head
around it. He was DEPRESSED, and the lithium didn't really help and the
cocaine made it worse. One of the last things he did was to offer to help
ACT UP. After his death a letter to that effect was read at the big Monday
night ACT UP meeting.

  It's really too bad that he didn't stay alive to carry on the fight.  In
fact, the "very significant work of late model yippie" largely consists  of
the ibogaine project, vanguard of the World Wide Marijuana March (now in 139
cities for May 5, 2007). Abbie knew Howard and Sisko, he would have been
welcomed with open arms as an ibo rep, and who knows-- he might have been
more successful at pushing it through to approval than I was alone during
that window from '88 to '95 when we had our first chance.

  But he didn't. How can I be jealous of some one who killed himself in
despair? I'm alive. I've survived almost 10 years longer than Abbie and I'm
about to open the Yippie Museum/ webcafe. The ground floor no longer smells
of male cat, though I suppose the faint traces still serve to keep out the
neighborhood's rat population.

  I've had cats and I've had rats. Cats are better.

    Which is it? Perhaps we shall never know. Oh the pity of it all.

    Very amused,

  In fact if you ever have a rat infestation, it'll wipe any resistance you
may have to using  the little buggers for animal experimentation.

  Stanley Glick rules!

  But I knew you wouldn't believe anything I said anyway, so I forwarded the
whole thread to Don Wirtschafter.

  I have good relations with Donnie, as I have with roughly 97% of the
marijuana movement. You don't get to the point where coalitions in 140
cities are already backing your May 5, '07 worldwide march in the middle of
October without a whole lot of good relations with a whole lot of people.
That list of organizations we're not on-- with one or two exceptions they're
all either part of the march (i.e: listed on back of the poster), or will
end up speaking at one or more of the rallies.

  But I've been in a dialog with Donnie about trying to improve the tone of
things with Stroup and Kampia, both of whom are down on the march (Stroup
says NORML won't back it because most events consist of 12 people and "Dana
Beal is far from the mainstream in his views." Trans: I may get 50,000 in
Rome and 25,000 in Toronto, but I don't really think it's a good idea to
associate the marijuana movement with heroin legalization as NORML does by
cozying up to Ethan. I'd rather associate it with "medical ibogaine" because
iibo is the closest analog to medical marijuana. Love the way these guys
self-reference themselves as mainstream!

  So Donny read the stuff you guys said about me, and he fired back the

    From:   don at hempery.com
    Subject:   Controversy on the Ibogaine List


    Thank you for forwarding to me some of the correspondence off of the
Ibogaine list.  I understand your concerns with being blamed for events that
are out of your control.

    As you know, I have a unique, inside view of the situation.  I watch
these events closely and know all the parties involved including MPP’s
primary funder.

    MPP is centered on marijuana reform.  They do not like to get outside of
this area at all.  MPP rightfully does not feel addiction and the Ibogaine
cure have little to do with their area of interest.  Yes, MPP funds groups
like LEAP or DRCNet, groups with a larger agenda than marijuana law reform.
But these groups have a strong connection to marijuana law reform.  I know
from a conversation that I had with Rob Kampia that he has trouble seeing
the connection between your work and what MPP does.

    I was also on the NORML Board of Directors for several years, only
dropping off when my questions about a needed financial accounting were not

    Both NORML and MPP seem to be bent on strengthening their own positions.
Notice the letter on ARO from Steph Sherer of ASA this morning.  MPP has
threatened to cut off funding any groups who obtain an ASA grant.  The only
explanation for such behavior is a run-away ego.  Funding from these
organizations go to projects that build a name for the organization.  You
have not allowed the Ibogaine message to be diverted as such.

    Dana, you have been a full-time advocate for Ibogaine almost as long as
I have known you, so this dates your advocacy to at least 15 years running.
You have been the public voice for Ibogaine treatment from the beginning as
I believe Howard realized your talents and perseverance and put you in this
position.  Being the focal point is not easy and an almost guarantee of
being trashed by friends and foes alike.  In my view, you have done nothing
wrong that should lead anyone to criticize your motives, image or
performance.  Indeed, with little funding, the Ibogaine debate has come a
long way in this time.

    We all have a lot to thank you for.


  The runaway ego, of course, is Rob Kampia. And it's pretty clear the
perception here is that I'm taking shit because I keep insisting that
Ibogaine is NOT marginal, and that I even get a certain grudging respect for
sticking to my guns.

  And here's the letter that Steph Sherer sent to the Association of Reform
Organization (ARO) List complaining about Rob heavyhanded tactics--

    From: owner-aro at drugsense.org [mailto:owner-aro at drugsense.org] On Behalf
    Steph Sherer
    To: aro at drugsense.org
    Subject: MPP Grant Ultimatum

    Dear Drug Policy Reform Movement,

    It's been called to my attention that in the past day, two medical
    organizations with pending grants applications with ASA and MPP were
    an ultimatum: If applicants take ASA grant money, then they will be
    MPP grant money.

    In one case, an organization that had already been granted ASA funds was
    told to refuse the ASA grant or they would receive NO grant money from
    And, in the other case, a pending applicant with ASA was told by MPP
    they had 24-hours to give a verbal promise that they would not take
    from ASA, and subsequently asked to sign a formal statement to the same

    ASA was shocked and disappointed to learn from these advocates that they
    were being asked to make this choice.

    In both of these cases, MPP was not offering to fulfill the entire
    for these organizations. That is precisely why ASA's grants programs
    ASA's grants program was created specifically to fill the funding gaps
    grassroots organizing and implementation of state medical marijuana
    Our grants program is considerably smaller than MPPs - we average
    in funding distributed to grassroots medical cannabis advocacy
    each year.   (For more information about ASA's grant program HYPERLINK
    accessnow.org/article.php?list=type&type=216 )

    Given scarce funding resources for grassroots medical cannabis advocacy,
    am deeply concerned about this situation. I think it is important to
    the community about what is happening.  Also, I would like to know if
    is happening to others. If you, or someone you know, is experiencing a
    similar situation, please let me know ASAP.

    In light of continued DEA raids and challenges we face to change federal
    law, I hope these are isolated situations we can swiftly resolve.


    Steph Sherer

    Executive Director

    Americans for Safe Access

  All of which raises the interesting possibility Kampia is down on me not
because of something I did or said, or even because he doesn't want to have
to hear me out as to why I think he's wrong about ibogaine and cannabis, but
simply because I head a marijuana network that is bigger than his
organization, powered more by volunteerism than money--and he's been unable
to shut us down by buying away our people because there just are too many of

  So it's unfortunate that we can't just talk, since minds are sometimes
changed through the interactions of two people (Allan Clear and Dimitri, for

  If I could talk to Rob Kampia, I would say ibogaine and marijuana are
related in the following ways--

  1) Both are governed by the same guys at FDA and NIDA, who look at
ibogaine thru the lense of medical marijuana, as in, how will the precedent
of de-scheduling ibo affect medical marijuana?

  2) Both are glutamate antagonistic, serotonin-enhancing hallucinogens;
they use the same pathways, so that ibogaine's anti-addictiveness casts
doubt on the addictiveness of cannabis. (The psychedelic link drives Stroup
crazy-- he wants to associate it with alcohol, which is an addictive, opioid
agonist. Maybe that's why he'd rather be associated with heroin trials than
ibogain access.)

  3) Because of common mechanism, ibogaine and cannabis turn out to be
effective in the treatment of the same diseases (e.g: Hep C, HIV,
addicition, bi-polar), and will in the future be used as adjunct therapies
in the treatment of these diseases.

  4) After ibogaine treatment, use of alcohol, but not marijuana, tends to
provoke relapse. One night you get really drunk and suddenly it seems like a
real great idea to do a bag of smack. . Marijuana doesn't do that. So
success with ibogaine often consists of switching your pattern of drug
consumption from alcohol and tobacco to pot, LSD and 'shrooms. Turning the
methadone dependent into medical marijuana clients.

  5) Ibogaine nullifies the "gateway effect" argument. Not only is it a
"gateway back" from hard drugs, remember the real drug warriors also
consider psychedelics to be part of the slippery slope to coke and dope, so
an anti-addictive psychedelic is anathema!

  So if it's unfortunate that we can't talk, at least I can circulate these
ideas, and ibogaine may become a little more mainstream. What I would say to
you guys is that if you want to put on your own ibogaine forum, if you think
I'm such a drawback, go ahead  and do it!

  It doesn't even cost that much. And best of all, Tyler tells me that the 3
freshmen he has who want to work on it are all coeds! Both of you guys are
probably younger than me, so you might have a chance with them.


  PS: I think it's bad form to be hassling ASA what with Ed Rosenthal facing
that new indictment. ASA is a Rosenthal front. Patrick, do they get money
from John Gilmore? I know Gilmore is backing Ed's defense, or at least did
so last time.
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