[Ibogaine] ibo addiction (Brad)

grasshopper rwd3 at cox.net
Sat Oct 21 12:49:54 EDT 2006

Any stats on my situation?  Jasen had a realistic take on it but I didn't know you were in the biz and studying results. I'm the one that got the hell beat out of him during both sessions. No w/drawals but boy what an aftershock.  Still fighting the dragon and afraid to do another session. Thanks.  Ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brad Hays 
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:37 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibo addiction

  Not much time to talk, but just wanted to drop a line to say thanks for your response Norman.  Got a little better idea now of what we're talking about, and the effect seems transient, which is what I was hoping to hear.  BTW, your program needs to be copied many times over on every continent.  Well done, my friend, well done. 

  On 10/20/06, edward conn <wardconn at hotmail.com> wrote: 

    your program sounds great and i think what you are doing is exactly what
    ibogaine requires, after all it is a tool which is used within a tight 
    sociological setting in situ in gabon. Coupled with that it is a lack of
    emotional, and sociological aswell as psychological bases which often lead
    to peoples down fall in life in the first place.

    I have found the same as yourself whilst working with ibogaine. After some 
    three years I changed my method of working to encorporate a long term
    holding process, on average about three months of pre and post treatment
    support but as long as a year or more for others. Having been working in 
    this way for three years afterward, i conducted a brief analysis of results
    over some 25 individuals ageing from 21-56. Long term prognosis had
    increased to aprox. 75% staying clean, which actually increased after a year 
    to closer to 90%.

    The reason for this was person specific, and as I looked over my notes from
    the early consultations the clarity of this for the particular person would
    become clear. Some people needed a wider sense of security, or more exactly 
    had very little if any form of real security in their lives. So a little
    longer was needed for their soul if you like to set them back into a new
    holding environment, perhaps a better relationship for example.Therefore 
    giving them back what they lacked in the first place. I know that in some of
    these cases if I had not been able to offer ongoing care the outlook would
    have been very different, which is a worry consideration. This result base 
    has been recently published, but unfortunately only available in Italian at
    the moment.If anybody would like to know please contact me.

    I use a transpersonal psychological model and training to aid this process 
    and this adoption has made a world of difference, infact it is now where I
    intend to concentrate my focus. There are more providers out there by the
    month but no growth or little in support. If I could in any way do this it 
    would give me a great deal of pleasure.

    My conclusion is that without this long term pre and post perspective and
    facility, results are around about 40-50% success, simply because life
    skill, life knowledge are absent, there is nothing to fall back on, so 
    really what can be expected.

    What I have also learnt is that this support can be offered by telephone if
    necessary, and many of my clients who were not able to travel regularly used
    this service. What I would like to be able to do is offer this more widely, 
    to people who are perhaps having treatment but lack the specialised support.

    If any body has a response to this I would be very interrested. Some
    feedback would be probably fuel to me putting something of greater extension 
    into place.

    Sadly, over the years I have heard of cases of where I have guessed that
    poeple probably would have fared better if support was available, but these
    are still early days relatively.

    Six years of working with ibogaine and three or more of those using 
    therapeutic ongoing support have taught me a lot about the potential of this
    substance and the potentiated long term efficacy that goes with conducive
    and visionary support.



    >From: Norman Brown <secundumvitae at yahoo.com>
    >Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
    >To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
    >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibo addiction
    >Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:41:49 -0700 (PDT)
    >Hi Randy,
    >   Thank you for your comments! 
    >   We have found that a follow up program is essential for ibogaine. If we
    >had not been there for several of our clients they would have just fallen
    >back into their old patterns. It is mostly a process of showing people 
    >options that they can choose for their lives and reconditioning. Although
    >we are not mainly a drug interuption program we feel that if those that are
    >drug interruption programs were to extend their program by one week and 
    >gave a loving support therapy program there would at least be a 50%
    >increase in their success rate. We also feel from our experience that it is
    >possible to reach 95 to 98% sucess rate with ibogaine. (Of course we have 
    >only been at this for one year and our statistics may adjust over time.) It
    >just takes the right follow up program. We have treat over 40 people so far
    >and are coming up on our one year anniversary for several individuals who 
    >are living a happier life than ever before. Out of 40 people we have only
    >one who says that ibogaine
    >  did nothing for them, although she is no longer obsessing about her
    >relationship that has been over for 5 years and she has moved on to seek a 
    >new relationship, which is the reason that she did ibogaine in the first
    >place. If the client says it failed for them then we count it as a failure.
    >   At this point we are not in a financial position to attend to our work 
    >as a research facility, but when the funding becomes available we will do
    >more to document our work and then governments will have no excuse left to
    >say that ibogaine is not a reasonable therapeutic tool for not just drug 
    >   Have a great day!
    >   Norman
    >BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com wrote:
    >         In a message dated 10/18/2006 6:34:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
    >secundumvitae at yahoo.com writes:
    >     Our programs are a minimum of one month, which is the ibogaine
    >treatment followed up with a reprograming process which combines eastern 
    >and western philosophy and psychology.
    >   We have found that ibogaine is an excellent tool for life change
    >especially when suplemented with a program designed to accomplish just
    >   At this point we are not treating heroine addiction, there are plenty of 
    >facilities around the world for that. We are not an "end my problem and let
    >me get on with my life" program. Not that there is anything wrong with
    >that. We are here to help people change their lives. 
    >   Norman, once again I have to say that what you are doing is so cool, to
    >put it plainly. Lots of us feel the same way here in the US, but it being
    >illegal to use Ibogaine it's almost impossible to achieve this program. I 
    >know the people who were responsible in treating me had something like this
    >in mind but had to leave it up to me to implement it. Well, I felt so great
    >afterwards that I saw no reason for follow up treatment. I found out later 
    >that this was not the case and have since sought therapy and other means of
    >improving my life and lifestyle. Maybe your success will spur some
    >financiers to start some follow up programs like yours. We would have to go 
    >out of the states for the treatment then immediately go into such an
    >aftercare program. I think the results of this would be so positive and the
    >recidivism rates would be so low for addiction that the FDA would have to 
    >rethink their stand on Ibogaine. I know it sure would have helped me and
    >saved me a lot of struggles.
    >  My struggles continue but I remain steadfast in my belief that Ibogaine
    >could help untold amounts of people improve their quality of life for a 
    >variety of ailments here in the US. It looks like that is what they are
    >doing in Vancouver, and kind of what Sara is doing in Amsterdam to me but
    >they can speak for themselves. I sure wish I could have gone to a program 
    >like this. Hindsight is always 20/20.      Randy
    >Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates
    >starting at 1¢/min. 

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