[Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa(Brad)

grasshopper rwd3 at cox.net
Fri Oct 20 14:08:01 EDT 2006


I sure would like Howard's take on this or Marko's or Schmooly's or Sara's.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brad Hays 
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:08 AM
  Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa(Brad)


  Thanks for the update grasshopper.  Every treatment report, at this point, is extremely valuable, the way I see it; because, when usage of Ibo goes up in the future we should expect to see more of these 'one time events' that we're seeing now. 

  Godspeed to ya

   
  On 10/19/06, grasshopper <rwd3 at cox.net> wrote: 
    Brad:
    I never made it more than 3 weeks, during which time it was all I could do to just go to the bathroom. Prior to the session,  I had been on a 5 yr. run of 10 80 mg. oxys a day on average and a pile of benzos.  I never missed a day.  Also I was washing it down occasionally w/ 100+ mg.  of methadone. 
    Maybe it was the long lasting stuff I was using or my age,  who knows?  The aftermath was almost as bad as the w/ drawals.  Anyone have any insight into this?  The session killed the w/ drawals but the aftermath damn near killed me.  I wanted to eat but couldn't, I wanted to drink but couldn't.  Maybe I just beat the crap out of myself presession or maybe I just couldn't produce any endorphins.  I think the question would better be directed to those who have stats on sessions or more contact w/ providers.  I may be an anomaly. Ron  
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Brad Hays 
      To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
      Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa(Paul)

       
      Hey there grasshopper,

      How long did it take for you to feel like just generally getting out of the house and doing stuff like errands?

       
      On 10/19/06, grasshopper <rwd3 at cox.net> wrote: 
        Glad you made my friend,  I neither had the time for complete recovery after
        IBO nor the stamina.  For me, post IBO  presented a  whole other situation, 
        i.e.  I was left a shivering , dehydrated, non eating, lethargic wreck
        despite the efforts of my provider who went way beyond the call of duty.
        HOWARD:  I am curious as to your take on aging junkies....either I am a wuss 
        or my age played a significant role in what happened after the session...in
        other words I was beat to shite and felt like dying..no w/d syndrome but I
        couldn't get out of bed or eat. In essence,  I experienced  another pain 
        which was unexpected and just as debilatating(sic) as the w/d syndrome.
        All I could think about was making the pain go away,  not getting high, just
        getting well..sort of like the swine flu only worse. Anyone else in their 
        late 50's experience such symptoms?  I figure I needed at least 6 weeks to
        make a go of it.  do you think that my body's inability to produce
        endorphins had something to do with it? No natural pain relievers, no 
        appetite, extreme lethargy, no sex drive and nothing produced naturally to
        make me feel good.  I realize these things take time for everything to start
        firing again,  but Jeez it suxed.
        ron
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: "Paul Brookshaw" <jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk>
        To: < ibogaine at mindvox.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:05 AM 
        Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa


        > Hi Ron,
        >         Well if you ain't the man at the top, anywhere youi will always be 
        > treated like cattle.
        >                                            Humanity is shameful. 
        > The French Connection was a good one Mr Bush lol.
        >                                                 Have a good one P' 
        >
        >
        >>From: "grasshopper" < rwd3 at cox.net>
        >>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
        >>To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
        >>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa 
        >>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:00:20 -0500
        >>
        >>Rehab in USA:
        >>1) Public Funded Rehab:  for those that do not have money
        >>    Protocol for opiates:  catapress ( blood pressure med ) and robabaxin 
        >> for detox
        >>                                      does nothing to alleviate withdrawal
        >> symptoms
        >>                                      similar to cold turkey
        >>2) Middle income rehab:  1 week taper on suboxone and the other meds above 
        >>                                          withdrawal syndrome big time
        >> after a week
        >>3)  Fat cat cash only rehab:  30, 000 US up front for 30 days in patient
        >>                                             bup or suboxone for a longer 
        >> period
        >>All the above rely on 12 step  after care
        >>Bottom line:  in the US the medical consensus is that the addict MUST feel
        >>pain because he / she has been a bad person and must suffer and  treatment 
        >>is dictated by how much insurance will pay or cash the addict has,  not
        >>the condition  of the addict  who wants to recover.  Thanks George for all
        >>your compassion.  Bad addicts! grasshopper No wonder many of us resort to 
        >>the Big Sleep
        >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Brookshaw" <jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk >
        >>To: < ibogaine at mindvox.com>
        >>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:13 AM
        >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa
        >>
        >>
        >>>The prosses is going the same way here in Norwich UK. 
        >>>The drug agencies can only seem to keep you addicted to Methadone. Keeps 
        >>>them in a job.
        >>>
        >>>If you are serious about doing a rehab, you still have to be a statistic 
        >>>and get lots of counceling.
        >>>
        >>>Keeps them in a job. 
        >>>
        >>>After you get clean and start to get your life back together, they still
        >>>don't want to let you go as 
        >>>you are said to need lots of Psycho Therapy.
        >>> 
        >>>Keeping more so called poffesionals in a job.
        >>>
        >>>If man did not have a prepensity to self medicate, then there would be 
        >>>one hell of a lot of so called proffesionals looking for alternative 
        >>>employment.
        >>>
        >>>                             MONEY
        >>> <------------------------------------------------->PEOPLE 
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>Seems like a real bad ballance that one. 
        >>>                                                                     P'
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> P.S. Howard,
        >>>                 No disrespect meant, but if the statistics that you get 
        >>> say that the UK is a low dose Methadone dosing Country, then how much is
        >>> the average daily dose in the States? 
        >>>
        >>>Statistics.
        >>>
        >>>Is that just keeping someone else in a job ? 
        >>>
        >>>                                                                   P'
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>From: "Nick Sandberg" < nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
        >>>>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
        >>>>To: < ibogaine at mindvox.com>
        >>>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa 
        >>>>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:12:27 +0100 
        >>>>
        >>>>What I heard recently is that the UK government are progressively giving
        >>>>up
        >>>>on trying to treat addiction through residential care. Funding is going 
        >>>>down
        >>>>for rehab centres and places now harder to find if you don't have the
        >>>>money
        >>>>yourself.
        >>>>
        >>>>Nick
        >>>> 
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>   -----Original Message-----
        >>>>   From: firefly [mailto: lik4luk at yahoo.com.au]
        >>>>   Sent: 05 October 2006 10:43
        >>>>   To: ibogaine at mindvox.com 
        >>>>   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legal from a criminal trial lawyer in usa 
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>   Funny statements=addicts are diseased and not worth helping.
        >>>>   YEAH RITE! 
        >>>>   We all started the same innocent and clean-we can all end the same 
        >>>> with
        >>>>support and understanding.
        >>>>
        >>>>   HSLotsof at aol.com wrote:
        >>>>     Hi,
        >>>> 
        >>>>     I am not sure what you mean by "that is one of the funniest
        >>>> statements I
        >>>>have read." 
        >>>>
        >>>>     Howard
        >>>> 
        >>>>     In a message dated 10/4/06 9:25:34 AM, jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk writes:
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>       That is not in keeping with the information I receive indicating 
        >>>> the
        >>>>UK is a 
        >>>>       low dose methadone country.  What is the average dose of
        >>>> methadone you
        >>>>know
        >>>>       of in the UK? 
        >>>>
        >>>>       Hell Howard, that is one of the funniest statements I have read. 
        >>>>
        >>>>       An avarage Methadone dose here is 80ml. They try to drop you to 
        >>>> 50ml
        >>>>if you
        >>>>       are willing, but most everyone gets 50ml to 100ml daily. 
        >>>>       Cock up to many times with dirty samples and they flood you with 
        >>>> the
        >>>>Green
        >>>>       devil.
        >>>>
        >>>>       Real glad I am out of all that shit once and for all. 
        >>>>
        >>>> 
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
        >>>>-- 
        >>>>   On Yahoo!7
        >>>>   Answers: 25 million answers and counting. Learn something new today
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