[Ibogaine] correction

Dana Beal dana at phantom.com
Thu Oct 19 19:55:05 EDT 2006

Not to be tendencious, but the following posts were so far off the  
mark that to leave them out there unresponded-to would not only leave  
the wrong implression, but would chance an outcome where permanent  
misinformation of the List might result.

In reply to Patrick Kroupa, Dave Brockman wrote:
> Dog, much respect and understood. I haven't continued the thread and
> will just drop it. All of this began by asking a real simple question,
> which was why did Dana go so far out of his way to totally alienate
> Rob Kampia. Rob showed up for the ibo forum, he was into it. He left
> because Ken Alper is boring and it's not that likely that MPP is ever
> going to fund ibogaine anything and Rob does control Lewis' money,
> which is upsetting to a lot of peeps, including the DPA and every
> other cannabis activist org. But you know Rob went out and got the
> money in the first place, it's not like Lewis was a real big donator
> of funds to any counter culture causes even back like 5 years ago,
> it's all very recent. It's real hard to attack Rob for going out and
> getting himself his own funding, that's brand new even.

So far as I know yr time line is off. When Kampia snagged Lewis from  
Nadelman, it was a seismic event which sent shockwaves through the  
legalization movement. It not only cut off Nadelman's major source of  
funding (after Richard Dennis lost a lot of money on the futures  
market), it cut off NORML, which Nadelman had just co-opted to  
bolster his pre-eminence as THE guy the NYTIMES likes to quote.  
Nadelman did this by engineering a coup ousting  the old board  
containing  Al Byrnes and Marylynn Mathre (now Patients out of Time)  
as too counter-cultural, and bringing back Keith Stroup from disgrace  
(Stroup having torpedoed Jimmy Carter's Drug Czar, Dr. Peter Bourne,  
by revealing to an assistant of Jack Anderson that they'd done coke  

The person who persuaded Peter Lewis to switch horses was his nephew,  
Don Wirtschafter, who was pissed because Keith threw him off the  
NORML board.

> I know Dana is Dana, I know he's your friend and you've known him
> since you were 12 or 13 or whatever, I can read, it's all online. All
> of this was escaleted by Dana who responded to the question, which btw
> included you biscuitboy, agreeing with me when I first asked it.
> I never said I was representing SSDP, that's something that's come
> back to me that Dana is asking peeps, that's all Dana, not me, never
> said that or even said anything implying it.
> No I'm not 'top hat' ;-) that was Nicky! I was the one sitting one
> over from Top Hat ;-)
> It's cool patrick, even if Dana posts another 30 paragraph rant in
> reply to this, I won't bother picking it up. Maybe someone else will,
> but like I have said at least 10 times, I really do have respect for
> the bro, I know Dana does a lot of good, I know who he is, everybody
> does, what I asked was why does he waste so much of his effort,
> undoing what he's done by throwing fits and spazzing out, dissing
> peeps, for no reason. Don't see the up side to any of that, but it's
> his prob, nobody else's.
> -broc

Dave, if you truly don't want to dialog, that is unfortunate. Look, I  
wasn't getting through to Kampia on the phone, and against my better  
judgement, on the recommendation of Vallerie VandePanne, I tried  
email. What I was trying to get, if I was going to turn over the raw  
tape of the entire conference--for free--was some assurances of  
better treatment in the future.  Because there are real issues about  
how Rob treats other cannabis-related networks, like the Global  
March, and how MPP is interacting with Cures not Wars on both the ibo  
and medical marijusna issues.

All I was trying to do was get the guy to TALK. (Alan St. Pierre, the  
new head of NORML, returns my phone calls, even if it takes a week. I  
think that's perfectly acceptable. )

You have characterized that email as hate speech, but look at it,  
paragraph by paragraph--

From: rkampia at mpp.org
Subject: Re: video of ibogaine forum


Your e-mail message is rude -- and for no good reason.  Please do not  
write or call me.

Rob Kampia, Executive Director
Marijuana Policy Project
P.O. Box 77492, Washington, D.C. 20013
202-462-5747 ext. 271 (phone), 202-232-0442 (fax)
RKampia at mpp.org, http://www.mpp.org

Please visit http://www.mpp.org/subscribe to sign up for MPP's free e- 
mail alerts.

On Apr 25, 2006, at 8:34 PM, Dana Beal wrote:

 > I am disinclined to give you the raw footage without proper  
editing. Frankly, I'm a little confused by yr sudden interest in  
ibogaine. >We have never discussed it, and you guys have a history of  
setting up phony organizations to take all the credit and resources  
away >from grass roots activists who have labored long and hard in  
the trenches just when they are on the verge of success.

This part is true, and repeats criticisms that that are well-known,  
and originate with former NORML head Dick Cohen. It explains the  
grounds for reluctance do anything without talking first. All we're  
looking for is some assurances. Ibogaine IS on the verge of success,  

 > You must admit the inside-the-beltway drug policy wonks have been  
pretty hostile to our movement -- see Phil Smith's coverage >of this  
year's Million Marijuana March in this week's DRCnet.

And here's the opening for Rob to write back saying that if others  
are hostile, he's not.

 > We prefer to maintain the MMM and Cures not Wars as a platform  
independent of this kind of bullshit so that we can propagate our  
 >message of a public health oriented, harm reduction approach to non- 
injection drug use, including ibogaine.

This boilerplate is essentially an indirect plea for a political  
alliance, since if we're independent, that means we're not aligned  
with the folks who want Rob's scalp.

 > A couple of days ago, when I tried to call you on the phone you  
had some flack call me back and ask if they could help me, >because  
you were too busy to talk to me about ibogaine and its potential role  
in the movement. I told them that I was perfectly >willing to wait  
until you could take my call.

This gets down to the nub of what I want to discuss--the ways in  
which ibogaine helps the cause of cannabis, which the Stroups and  
Nadelmans have simply failed to see.

 > Email is not a good way to communicate, and I realize this message  
may come off as brusque. A phone conversation would be >much more  
sensitive, I'm sure.

So here"s the first apology.

 > (BTW, I do believe now that it was NYU, and not you, who set up  
the forum obstensibly about Giuliani's quality of life crackdown on  
 >marijuana which turned out to be about HEA Reform and Tulia Texas-- 
a classic case of bait & switch, if there ever was one. I >wouldn't  
even have tuirned up there with the crowd I brought (yr only  
audience) if some one hadn't covered my door with flyers for >it. It  
was a little insensitive of you to show up at all for a venue that  
had banned the local movement outright, but I am convinced >you were  
being used by NYU in their attempts isolate us. You will be happy to  
know that finally, after 10 years, we are being given >Washington  
Square Park for one hour before our march to commemorate Stew Albert,  
the Yippie founder who recently died due to >the complications of  
hepatitis he caught from a dirty needle. We recently have noticed  
that hep C patients actually do better on >ibogaine than interferon.  
Ibogaine could have helped prolong Stew's life--which is a drag,  
since he was one the board of our Yippie >Museum. Too bad the  
legalization movement suppressed the very existence of ibogaine all  
these years because Ethan et al thought >it was a threat to their pet  
heroin trials.)
 > Dana/cnw

And here's the second apology, along with some criticism of Nadelman  
Rob might sympathize with (since Ethan is leading the charge to cut  
him off from Lewis) along with one of the parallels of ibo and  
cannabis (they're both good for hep C) that I'd point out if Rob was  
willing to be briefed further.

Suffice it to say he didn't go for it. Probably because he WAS  
uptight about that night at NYU. At least I got a response I could  
show to people who want to know what the problem is-- that Kampia  
won't talk, period. He wasn't talking before, and he isn't talking  
afterwards. So nothing changed. Pity. Count the lines. 3 lines of  
criticism. 4 lines appealing for sympathy. 3 lines of specific  
complaint asking to just TALK about ibogaine and how it furthers the  
cause of cannabis. 12 lines apologizing for bothering him at all.  
That's 6 lines of criticism and complaint vs. 16 lines of apology and  

Doesn't sound like hate speech to me.

Eric Priest wrote:
> Patrick  - yawn - defending his crazed old friend. For the how  
> manyth time? That is what a decent friend should do. It’s rather  
> cute. And money is good.
> Dana, acting anything other than diplomatic or coherent. SHOCKING!  
> No one has ever heard of such a thing. And – snore - Howard and Deb  
> fighting…
> Say it ain’t so.
> The possibilities are endless, all the way from either to or with  
> Dana. Conspiracies are much too much fun to ignore.
> Either: Dana is a shill for the man. He’s down with the cops or has  
> some MK-Ultra gig going and is merely a tool for keeping ibo lost  
> in the netherworld. With a friend like him, who needs government  
> suppression? This would explain his never becoming a baanzi. Good  
> narcs don’t taste.

Sorry. You weren't paying attention. I recently took some Indra for a  
fungoid lung infection, and referred to it on-list.  6 hrs of motion  
sickness and puking. The next morning, however, no shortness of  
breath. (Afterwards I read how iboga blocks the enzymes candidiasis  
uses to break down cell walls.)

The charge here is that I'm such a controversial figure that folks  
from the DPA et al boycott any forums I organize and that having me  
in any prominent role blocks other sponsors from becoming involved.

I say this is a typical case of shooting the messager who brings bad  
news-- except that in this case the news isn't even all bad.

I say Ibogaine has a problem in the the leglization movement (DPA,  
DRCnet, LEAP) and with the hierarchies of established national  
organiztions  (NORML, MPP, ASA) but not grassroots, local groups in  
the Pot Movement. Ibogaine is gaining increasing respect in the  
psychedelic community (MAPS, Mindstates, the Ayahuasca Churchs) as  
folks come to see that in fact ibo does something their stuff just  
doesn' do.  And Ibogaine has broken through with the Harm Reduction  
Coalition (HRC, Meth Summit) and is making great strides, with major  
panels being planned in both Oakland and Salt Lake City. All because  
of personal interaction between Allan Clear and Dimitri Mougainis I  
might add.

Narcs don't usually go to the trouble of organizing panels at  
conferences. Conferences, I might note, that are not solely sponsored  
by CNW or affiliate groups, yet have me as one of the presenters.

> Or: Dana is touched. Years of being the lessor known sidekick of  
> Abbie Hoffman and the lack of recognition for the very... uhm,  
> significant work of late model yippies has taken it’s toll. The  
> smell of cat urine has gone to his brain. His last grasp for fame  
> lay in a root of which he refuses to partake, causing torn and  
> frayed behavior. A wounded animal, snarling and licking his wounds;  
> dangerous. The seams are coming apart. The last gagging breath of  
> the yippies is having trouble breathing. A lack of oxygen is  
> causing the pesky voices in his head to get a little louder. Never  
> pretty, but comedy isn’t. Who wouldn’t act a little out of sorts  
> under such conditions? Of course we need to show compassion. Thank  
> you Patrick.

I wish Abbie was around , Stewie too. Both of them were better than  
the straight lefties who've since appointed themselves protectors of  
Abbie's legacy with the chief aim of trying to take the drugs out of  
"sex, drugs and rock 'n roll." That is, trying to remake Abbie as a  
straight leftist who never opposed the drug war or supported  
legalization (or got busted for coke) but only worked for civil  
rights and opposed Vietnam and the contra war. Trying to pretend that  
the 3rd plank of Abbie's platform in '68 wasn't both legalization of  
pot and psychedelics and decrim of narcotics-- I guess nobody  
actually reads STEAL THIS BOOK any more.

I remember Abbie telling Clark Kissinger and a meeting of Refuse and  
Resist that if they were sincere in opposing the drug war,  they had  
to start with the legalization of pot, so I don't thing his position  
ever changed. And since he also started TAP and  went around selling   
blueboxes, it's only natural that Patrick and I should be connected  
under the big Yippie umbrella.

Thing is, Abbie was told about Ibogaine-- he could read about it in  
OVERTHROW-- but I am certain that I tried to convince him of the  
centrality of ibogaine to what was going to happen next.  But he  
couldn't get his head around it. He was DEPRESSED, and the lithium  
didn't really help and the cocaine made it worse. One of the last  
things he did was to offer to help ACT UP. After his death a letter  
to that effect was read at the big Monday night ACT UP meeting.

It's really too bad that he didn't stay alive to carry on the fight.   
In fact, the "very significant work of late model yippie" largely  
consists  of the ibogaine project, vanguard of the World Wide  
Marijuana March (now in 139 cities for May 5, 2007). Abbie knew  
Howard and Sisko, he would have been welcomed with open arms as an  
ibo rep, and who knows-- he might have been more successful at  
pushing it through to approval than I was alone during that window  
from '88 to '95 when we had our first chance.

But he didn't. How can I be jealous of some one who killed himself in  
despair? I'm alive. I've survived almost 10 years longer than Abbie  
and I'm about to open the Yippie Museum/ webcafe. The ground floor no  
longer smells of male cat, though I suppose the faint traces still  
serve to keep out the neighborhood's rat population.

I've had cats and I've had rats. Cats are better.

> Which is it? Perhaps we shall never know. Oh the pity of it all.
> Very amused,
> Eric.

In fact if you ever have a rat infestation, it'll wipe any resistance  
you may have to using  the little buggers for animal experimentation.

Stanley Glick rules!

But I knew you wouldn't believe anything I said anyway, so I  
forwarded the whole thread to Don Wirtschafter.

I have good relations with Donnie, as I have with roughly 97% of the  
marijuana movement. You don't get to the point where coalitions in  
140 cities are already backing your May 5, '07 worldwide march in the  
middle of October without a whole lot of good relations with a whole  
lot of people. That list of organizations we're not on-- with one or  
two exceptions they're all either part of the march (i.e: listed on  
back of the poster), or will end up speaking at one or more of the  

But I've been in a dialog with Donnie about trying to improve the  
tone of things with Stroup and Kampia, both of whom are down on the  
march (Stroup says NORML won't back it because most events consist of  
12 people and "Dana Beal is far from the mainstream in his views."  
Trans: I may get 50,000 in Rome and 25,000 in Toronto, but I don't  
really think it's a good idea to associate the marijuana movement  
with heroin legalization as NORML does by cozying up to Ethan. I'd  
rather associate it with "medical ibogaine" because iibo is the  
closest analog to medical marijuana. Love the way these guys self- 
reference themselves as mainstream!

So Donny read the stuff you guys said about me, and he fired back the  

> From: 	  don at hempery.com
> Subject: 	 Controversy on the Ibogaine List
> Dana,
> Thank you for forwarding to me some of the correspondence off of  
> the Ibogaine list.  I understand your concerns with being blamed  
> for events that are out of your control.
> As you know, I have a unique, inside view of the situation.  I  
> watch these events closely and know all the parties involved  
> including MPP’s primary funder.
> MPP is centered on marijuana reform.  They do not like to get  
> outside of this area at all.  MPP rightfully does not feel  
> addiction and the Ibogaine cure have little to do with their area  
> of interest.  Yes, MPP funds groups like LEAP or DRCNet, groups  
> with a larger agenda than marijuana law reform.  But these groups  
> have a strong connection to marijuana law reform.  I know from a  
> conversation that I had with Rob Kampia that he has trouble seeing  
> the connection between your work and what MPP does.
> I was also on the NORML Board of Directors for several years, only  
> dropping off when my questions about a needed financial accounting  
> were not answered.
> Both NORML and MPP seem to be bent on strengthening their own  
> positions.  Notice the letter on ARO from Steph Sherer of ASA this  
> morning.  MPP has threatened to cut off funding any groups who  
> obtain an ASA grant.  The only explanation for such behavior is a  
> run-away ego.  Funding from these organizations go to projects that  
> build a name for the organization.  You have not allowed the  
> Ibogaine message to be diverted as such.
> Dana, you have been a full-time advocate for Ibogaine almost as  
> long as I have known you, so this dates your advocacy to at least  
> 15 years running.  You have been the public voice for Ibogaine  
> treatment from the beginning as I believe Howard realized your  
> talents and perseverance and put you in this position.  Being the  
> focal point is not easy and an almost guarantee of being trashed by  
> friends and foes alike.  In my view, you have done nothing wrong  
> that should lead anyone to criticize your motives, image or  
> performance.  Indeed, with little funding, the Ibogaine debate has  
> come a long way in this time.
> We all have a lot to thank you for.
> Don

The runaway ego, of course, is Rob Kampia. And it's pretty clear the  
perception here is that I'm taking shit because I keep insisting that  
Ibogaine is NOT marginal, and that I even get a certain grudging  
respect for sticking to my guns.

And here's the letter that Steph Sherer sent to the Association of  
Reform Organization (ARO) List complaining about Rob heavyhanded  

> From: owner-aro at drugsense.org [mailto:owner-aro at drugsense.org] On  
> Behalf Of
> Steph Sherer
> To: aro at drugsense.org
> Subject: MPP Grant Ultimatum
> Dear Drug Policy Reform Movement,
> It's been called to my attention that in the past day, two medical  
> marijuana
> organizations with pending grants applications with ASA and MPP  
> were given
> an ultimatum: If applicants take ASA grant money, then they will be  
> denied
> MPP grant money.
> In one case, an organization that had already been granted ASA  
> funds was
> told to refuse the ASA grant or they would receive NO grant money  
> from MPP.
> And, in the other case, a pending applicant with ASA was told by  
> MPP that
> they had 24-hours to give a verbal promise that they would not take  
> funds
> from ASA, and subsequently asked to sign a formal statement to the  
> same
> effect.
> ASA was shocked and disappointed to learn from these advocates that  
> they
> were being asked to make this choice.
> In both of these cases, MPP was not offering to fulfill the entire  
> budgets
> for these organizations. That is precisely why ASA's grants  
> programs exists.
> ASA's grants program was created specifically to fill the funding  
> gaps for
> grassroots organizing and implementation of state medical marijuana  
> laws.
> Our grants program is considerably smaller than MPPs - we average  
> $150,000
> in funding distributed to grassroots medical cannabis advocacy  
> organizations
> each year.   (For more information about ASA's grant program HYPERLINK
> "http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?list=type&type=216"http:// 
> www.safe
> accessnow.org/article.php?list=type&type=216 )
> Given scarce funding resources for grassroots medical cannabis  
> advocacy, I
> am deeply concerned about this situation. I think it is important  
> to inform
> the community about what is happening.  Also, I would like to know  
> if this
> is happening to others. If you, or someone you know, is experiencing a
> similar situation, please let me know ASAP.
> In light of continued DEA raids and challenges we face to change  
> federal
> law, I hope these are isolated situations we can swiftly resolve.
> Sincerely,
> Steph Sherer
> Executive Director
> Americans for Safe Access

All of which raises the interesting possibility Kampia is down on me  
not because of something I did or said, or even because he doesn't  
want to have to hear me out as to why I think he's wrong about  
ibogaine and cannabis, but simply because I head a marijuana network  
that is bigger than his organization, powered more by volunteerism  
than money--and he's been unable to shut us down by buying away our  
people because there just are too many of us!

So it's unfortunate that we can't just talk, since minds are  
sometimes changed through the interactions of two people (Allan Clear  
and Dimitri, for instance).

If I could talk to Rob Kampia, I would say ibogaine and marijuana are  
related in the following ways--

1) Both are governed by the same guys at FDA and NIDA, who look at  
ibogaine thru the lense of medical marijuana, as in, how will the  
precedent of de-scheduling ibo affect medical marijuana?

2) Both are glutamate antagonistic, serotonin-enhancing  
hallucinogens; they use the same pathways, so that ibogaine's anti- 
addictiveness casts doubt on the addictiveness of cannabis. (The  
psychedelic link drives Stroup crazy-- he wants to associate it with  
alcohol, which is an addictive, opioid agonist. Maybe that's why he'd  
rather be associated with heroin trials than ibogain access.)

3) Because of common mechanism, ibogaine and cannabis turn out to be  
effective in the treatment of the same diseases (e.g: Hep C, HIV,  
addicition, bi-polar), and will in the future be used as adjunct  
therapies in the treatment of these diseases.

4) After ibogaine treatment, use of alcohol, but not marijuana, tends  
to provoke relapse. One night you get really drunk and suddenly it  
seems like a real great idea to do a bag of smack. . Marijuana  
doesn't do that. So success with ibogaine often consists of switching  
your pattern of drug consumption from alcohol and tobacco to pot, LSD  
and 'shrooms. Turning the methadone dependent into medical marijuana  

5) Ibogaine nullifies the "gateway effect" argument. Not only is it a  
"gateway back" from hard drugs, remember the real drug warriors also  
consider psychedelics to be part of the slippery slope to coke and  
dope, so an anti-addictive psychedelic is anathema!

So if it's unfortunate that we can't talk, at least I can circulate  
these ideas, and ibogaine may become a little more mainstream. What I  
would say to you guys is that if you want to put on your own ibogaine  
forum, if you think I'm such a drawback, go ahead  and do it!

It doesn't even cost that much. And best of all, Tyler tells me that  
the 3 freshmen he has who want to work on it are all coeds! Both of  
you guys are probably younger than me, so you might have a chance  
with them.


PS: I think it's bad form to be hassling ASA what with Ed Rosenthal  
facing that new indictment. ASA is a Rosenthal front. Patrick, do  
they get money from John Gilmore? I know Gilmore is backing Ed's  
defense, or at least did so last time.
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