dana at phantom.com
Thu Oct 19 19:55:05 EDT 2006
Not to be tendencious, but the following posts were so far off the
mark that to leave them out there unresponded-to would not only leave
the wrong implression, but would chance an outcome where permanent
misinformation of the List might result.
In reply to Patrick Kroupa, Dave Brockman wrote:
> Dog, much respect and understood. I haven't continued the thread and
> will just drop it. All of this began by asking a real simple question,
> which was why did Dana go so far out of his way to totally alienate
> Rob Kampia. Rob showed up for the ibo forum, he was into it. He left
> because Ken Alper is boring and it's not that likely that MPP is ever
> going to fund ibogaine anything and Rob does control Lewis' money,
> which is upsetting to a lot of peeps, including the DPA and every
> other cannabis activist org. But you know Rob went out and got the
> money in the first place, it's not like Lewis was a real big donator
> of funds to any counter culture causes even back like 5 years ago,
> it's all very recent. It's real hard to attack Rob for going out and
> getting himself his own funding, that's brand new even.
So far as I know yr time line is off. When Kampia snagged Lewis from
Nadelman, it was a seismic event which sent shockwaves through the
legalization movement. It not only cut off Nadelman's major source of
funding (after Richard Dennis lost a lot of money on the futures
market), it cut off NORML, which Nadelman had just co-opted to
bolster his pre-eminence as THE guy the NYTIMES likes to quote.
Nadelman did this by engineering a coup ousting the old board
containing Al Byrnes and Marylynn Mathre (now Patients out of Time)
as too counter-cultural, and bringing back Keith Stroup from disgrace
(Stroup having torpedoed Jimmy Carter's Drug Czar, Dr. Peter Bourne,
by revealing to an assistant of Jack Anderson that they'd done coke
The person who persuaded Peter Lewis to switch horses was his nephew,
Don Wirtschafter, who was pissed because Keith threw him off the
> I know Dana is Dana, I know he's your friend and you've known him
> since you were 12 or 13 or whatever, I can read, it's all online. All
> of this was escaleted by Dana who responded to the question, which btw
> included you biscuitboy, agreeing with me when I first asked it.
> I never said I was representing SSDP, that's something that's come
> back to me that Dana is asking peeps, that's all Dana, not me, never
> said that or even said anything implying it.
> No I'm not 'top hat' ;-) that was Nicky! I was the one sitting one
> over from Top Hat ;-)
> It's cool patrick, even if Dana posts another 30 paragraph rant in
> reply to this, I won't bother picking it up. Maybe someone else will,
> but like I have said at least 10 times, I really do have respect for
> the bro, I know Dana does a lot of good, I know who he is, everybody
> does, what I asked was why does he waste so much of his effort,
> undoing what he's done by throwing fits and spazzing out, dissing
> peeps, for no reason. Don't see the up side to any of that, but it's
> his prob, nobody else's.
Dave, if you truly don't want to dialog, that is unfortunate. Look, I
wasn't getting through to Kampia on the phone, and against my better
judgement, on the recommendation of Vallerie VandePanne, I tried
email. What I was trying to get, if I was going to turn over the raw
tape of the entire conference--for free--was some assurances of
better treatment in the future. Because there are real issues about
how Rob treats other cannabis-related networks, like the Global
March, and how MPP is interacting with Cures not Wars on both the ibo
and medical marijusna issues.
All I was trying to do was get the guy to TALK. (Alan St. Pierre, the
new head of NORML, returns my phone calls, even if it takes a week. I
think that's perfectly acceptable. )
You have characterized that email as hate speech, but look at it,
paragraph by paragraph--
From: rkampia at mpp.org
Subject: Re: video of ibogaine forum
Your e-mail message is rude -- and for no good reason. Please do not
write or call me.
Rob Kampia, Executive Director
Marijuana Policy Project
P.O. Box 77492, Washington, D.C. 20013
202-462-5747 ext. 271 (phone), 202-232-0442 (fax)
RKampia at mpp.org, http://www.mpp.org
Please visit http://www.mpp.org/subscribe to sign up for MPP's free e-
On Apr 25, 2006, at 8:34 PM, Dana Beal wrote:
> I am disinclined to give you the raw footage without proper
editing. Frankly, I'm a little confused by yr sudden interest in
ibogaine. >We have never discussed it, and you guys have a history of
setting up phony organizations to take all the credit and resources
away >from grass roots activists who have labored long and hard in
the trenches just when they are on the verge of success.
This part is true, and repeats criticisms that that are well-known,
and originate with former NORML head Dick Cohen. It explains the
grounds for reluctance do anything without talking first. All we're
looking for is some assurances. Ibogaine IS on the verge of success,
> You must admit the inside-the-beltway drug policy wonks have been
pretty hostile to our movement -- see Phil Smith's coverage >of this
year's Million Marijuana March in this week's DRCnet.
And here's the opening for Rob to write back saying that if others
are hostile, he's not.
> We prefer to maintain the MMM and Cures not Wars as a platform
independent of this kind of bullshit so that we can propagate our
>message of a public health oriented, harm reduction approach to non-
injection drug use, including ibogaine.
This boilerplate is essentially an indirect plea for a political
alliance, since if we're independent, that means we're not aligned
with the folks who want Rob's scalp.
> A couple of days ago, when I tried to call you on the phone you
had some flack call me back and ask if they could help me, >because
you were too busy to talk to me about ibogaine and its potential role
in the movement. I told them that I was perfectly >willing to wait
until you could take my call.
This gets down to the nub of what I want to discuss--the ways in
which ibogaine helps the cause of cannabis, which the Stroups and
Nadelmans have simply failed to see.
> Email is not a good way to communicate, and I realize this message
may come off as brusque. A phone conversation would be >much more
sensitive, I'm sure.
So here"s the first apology.
> (BTW, I do believe now that it was NYU, and not you, who set up
the forum obstensibly about Giuliani's quality of life crackdown on
>marijuana which turned out to be about HEA Reform and Tulia Texas--
a classic case of bait & switch, if there ever was one. I >wouldn't
even have tuirned up there with the crowd I brought (yr only
audience) if some one hadn't covered my door with flyers for >it. It
was a little insensitive of you to show up at all for a venue that
had banned the local movement outright, but I am convinced >you were
being used by NYU in their attempts isolate us. You will be happy to
know that finally, after 10 years, we are being given >Washington
Square Park for one hour before our march to commemorate Stew Albert,
the Yippie founder who recently died due to >the complications of
hepatitis he caught from a dirty needle. We recently have noticed
that hep C patients actually do better on >ibogaine than interferon.
Ibogaine could have helped prolong Stew's life--which is a drag,
since he was one the board of our Yippie >Museum. Too bad the
legalization movement suppressed the very existence of ibogaine all
these years because Ethan et al thought >it was a threat to their pet
And here's the second apology, along with some criticism of Nadelman
Rob might sympathize with (since Ethan is leading the charge to cut
him off from Lewis) along with one of the parallels of ibo and
cannabis (they're both good for hep C) that I'd point out if Rob was
willing to be briefed further.
Suffice it to say he didn't go for it. Probably because he WAS
uptight about that night at NYU. At least I got a response I could
show to people who want to know what the problem is-- that Kampia
won't talk, period. He wasn't talking before, and he isn't talking
afterwards. So nothing changed. Pity. Count the lines. 3 lines of
criticism. 4 lines appealing for sympathy. 3 lines of specific
complaint asking to just TALK about ibogaine and how it furthers the
cause of cannabis. 12 lines apologizing for bothering him at all.
That's 6 lines of criticism and complaint vs. 16 lines of apology and
Doesn't sound like hate speech to me.
Eric Priest wrote:
> Patrick - yawn - defending his crazed old friend. For the how
> manyth time? That is what a decent friend should do. It’s rather
> cute. And money is good.
> Dana, acting anything other than diplomatic or coherent. SHOCKING!
> No one has ever heard of such a thing. And – snore - Howard and Deb
> Say it ain’t so.
> The possibilities are endless, all the way from either to or with
> Dana. Conspiracies are much too much fun to ignore.
> Either: Dana is a shill for the man. He’s down with the cops or has
> some MK-Ultra gig going and is merely a tool for keeping ibo lost
> in the netherworld. With a friend like him, who needs government
> suppression? This would explain his never becoming a baanzi. Good
> narcs don’t taste.
Sorry. You weren't paying attention. I recently took some Indra for a
fungoid lung infection, and referred to it on-list. 6 hrs of motion
sickness and puking. The next morning, however, no shortness of
breath. (Afterwards I read how iboga blocks the enzymes candidiasis
uses to break down cell walls.)
The charge here is that I'm such a controversial figure that folks
from the DPA et al boycott any forums I organize and that having me
in any prominent role blocks other sponsors from becoming involved.
I say this is a typical case of shooting the messager who brings bad
news-- except that in this case the news isn't even all bad.
I say Ibogaine has a problem in the the leglization movement (DPA,
DRCnet, LEAP) and with the hierarchies of established national
organiztions (NORML, MPP, ASA) but not grassroots, local groups in
the Pot Movement. Ibogaine is gaining increasing respect in the
psychedelic community (MAPS, Mindstates, the Ayahuasca Churchs) as
folks come to see that in fact ibo does something their stuff just
doesn' do. And Ibogaine has broken through with the Harm Reduction
Coalition (HRC, Meth Summit) and is making great strides, with major
panels being planned in both Oakland and Salt Lake City. All because
of personal interaction between Allan Clear and Dimitri Mougainis I
Narcs don't usually go to the trouble of organizing panels at
conferences. Conferences, I might note, that are not solely sponsored
by CNW or affiliate groups, yet have me as one of the presenters.
> Or: Dana is touched. Years of being the lessor known sidekick of
> Abbie Hoffman and the lack of recognition for the very... uhm,
> significant work of late model yippies has taken it’s toll. The
> smell of cat urine has gone to his brain. His last grasp for fame
> lay in a root of which he refuses to partake, causing torn and
> frayed behavior. A wounded animal, snarling and licking his wounds;
> dangerous. The seams are coming apart. The last gagging breath of
> the yippies is having trouble breathing. A lack of oxygen is
> causing the pesky voices in his head to get a little louder. Never
> pretty, but comedy isn’t. Who wouldn’t act a little out of sorts
> under such conditions? Of course we need to show compassion. Thank
> you Patrick.
I wish Abbie was around , Stewie too. Both of them were better than
the straight lefties who've since appointed themselves protectors of
Abbie's legacy with the chief aim of trying to take the drugs out of
"sex, drugs and rock 'n roll." That is, trying to remake Abbie as a
straight leftist who never opposed the drug war or supported
legalization (or got busted for coke) but only worked for civil
rights and opposed Vietnam and the contra war. Trying to pretend that
the 3rd plank of Abbie's platform in '68 wasn't both legalization of
pot and psychedelics and decrim of narcotics-- I guess nobody
actually reads STEAL THIS BOOK any more.
I remember Abbie telling Clark Kissinger and a meeting of Refuse and
Resist that if they were sincere in opposing the drug war, they had
to start with the legalization of pot, so I don't thing his position
ever changed. And since he also started TAP and went around selling
blueboxes, it's only natural that Patrick and I should be connected
under the big Yippie umbrella.
Thing is, Abbie was told about Ibogaine-- he could read about it in
OVERTHROW-- but I am certain that I tried to convince him of the
centrality of ibogaine to what was going to happen next. But he
couldn't get his head around it. He was DEPRESSED, and the lithium
didn't really help and the cocaine made it worse. One of the last
things he did was to offer to help ACT UP. After his death a letter
to that effect was read at the big Monday night ACT UP meeting.
It's really too bad that he didn't stay alive to carry on the fight.
In fact, the "very significant work of late model yippie" largely
consists of the ibogaine project, vanguard of the World Wide
Marijuana March (now in 139 cities for May 5, 2007). Abbie knew
Howard and Sisko, he would have been welcomed with open arms as an
ibo rep, and who knows-- he might have been more successful at
pushing it through to approval than I was alone during that window
from '88 to '95 when we had our first chance.
But he didn't. How can I be jealous of some one who killed himself in
despair? I'm alive. I've survived almost 10 years longer than Abbie
and I'm about to open the Yippie Museum/ webcafe. The ground floor no
longer smells of male cat, though I suppose the faint traces still
serve to keep out the neighborhood's rat population.
I've had cats and I've had rats. Cats are better.
> Which is it? Perhaps we shall never know. Oh the pity of it all.
> Very amused,
In fact if you ever have a rat infestation, it'll wipe any resistance
you may have to using the little buggers for animal experimentation.
Stanley Glick rules!
But I knew you wouldn't believe anything I said anyway, so I
forwarded the whole thread to Don Wirtschafter.
I have good relations with Donnie, as I have with roughly 97% of the
marijuana movement. You don't get to the point where coalitions in
140 cities are already backing your May 5, '07 worldwide march in the
middle of October without a whole lot of good relations with a whole
lot of people. That list of organizations we're not on-- with one or
two exceptions they're all either part of the march (i.e: listed on
back of the poster), or will end up speaking at one or more of the
But I've been in a dialog with Donnie about trying to improve the
tone of things with Stroup and Kampia, both of whom are down on the
march (Stroup says NORML won't back it because most events consist of
12 people and "Dana Beal is far from the mainstream in his views."
Trans: I may get 50,000 in Rome and 25,000 in Toronto, but I don't
really think it's a good idea to associate the marijuana movement
with heroin legalization as NORML does by cozying up to Ethan. I'd
rather associate it with "medical ibogaine" because iibo is the
closest analog to medical marijuana. Love the way these guys self-
reference themselves as mainstream!
So Donny read the stuff you guys said about me, and he fired back the
> From: don at hempery.com
> Subject: Controversy on the Ibogaine List
> Thank you for forwarding to me some of the correspondence off of
> the Ibogaine list. I understand your concerns with being blamed
> for events that are out of your control.
> As you know, I have a unique, inside view of the situation. I
> watch these events closely and know all the parties involved
> including MPP’s primary funder.
> MPP is centered on marijuana reform. They do not like to get
> outside of this area at all. MPP rightfully does not feel
> addiction and the Ibogaine cure have little to do with their area
> of interest. Yes, MPP funds groups like LEAP or DRCNet, groups
> with a larger agenda than marijuana law reform. But these groups
> have a strong connection to marijuana law reform. I know from a
> conversation that I had with Rob Kampia that he has trouble seeing
> the connection between your work and what MPP does.
> I was also on the NORML Board of Directors for several years, only
> dropping off when my questions about a needed financial accounting
> were not answered.
> Both NORML and MPP seem to be bent on strengthening their own
> positions. Notice the letter on ARO from Steph Sherer of ASA this
> morning. MPP has threatened to cut off funding any groups who
> obtain an ASA grant. The only explanation for such behavior is a
> run-away ego. Funding from these organizations go to projects that
> build a name for the organization. You have not allowed the
> Ibogaine message to be diverted as such.
> Dana, you have been a full-time advocate for Ibogaine almost as
> long as I have known you, so this dates your advocacy to at least
> 15 years running. You have been the public voice for Ibogaine
> treatment from the beginning as I believe Howard realized your
> talents and perseverance and put you in this position. Being the
> focal point is not easy and an almost guarantee of being trashed by
> friends and foes alike. In my view, you have done nothing wrong
> that should lead anyone to criticize your motives, image or
> performance. Indeed, with little funding, the Ibogaine debate has
> come a long way in this time.
> We all have a lot to thank you for.
The runaway ego, of course, is Rob Kampia. And it's pretty clear the
perception here is that I'm taking shit because I keep insisting that
Ibogaine is NOT marginal, and that I even get a certain grudging
respect for sticking to my guns.
And here's the letter that Steph Sherer sent to the Association of
Reform Organization (ARO) List complaining about Rob heavyhanded
> From: owner-aro at drugsense.org [mailto:owner-aro at drugsense.org] On
> Behalf Of
> Steph Sherer
> To: aro at drugsense.org
> Subject: MPP Grant Ultimatum
> Dear Drug Policy Reform Movement,
> It's been called to my attention that in the past day, two medical
> organizations with pending grants applications with ASA and MPP
> were given
> an ultimatum: If applicants take ASA grant money, then they will be
> MPP grant money.
> In one case, an organization that had already been granted ASA
> funds was
> told to refuse the ASA grant or they would receive NO grant money
> from MPP.
> And, in the other case, a pending applicant with ASA was told by
> MPP that
> they had 24-hours to give a verbal promise that they would not take
> from ASA, and subsequently asked to sign a formal statement to the
> ASA was shocked and disappointed to learn from these advocates that
> were being asked to make this choice.
> In both of these cases, MPP was not offering to fulfill the entire
> for these organizations. That is precisely why ASA's grants
> programs exists.
> ASA's grants program was created specifically to fill the funding
> gaps for
> grassroots organizing and implementation of state medical marijuana
> Our grants program is considerably smaller than MPPs - we average
> in funding distributed to grassroots medical cannabis advocacy
> each year. (For more information about ASA's grant program HYPERLINK
> accessnow.org/article.php?list=type&type=216 )
> Given scarce funding resources for grassroots medical cannabis
> advocacy, I
> am deeply concerned about this situation. I think it is important
> to inform
> the community about what is happening. Also, I would like to know
> if this
> is happening to others. If you, or someone you know, is experiencing a
> similar situation, please let me know ASAP.
> In light of continued DEA raids and challenges we face to change
> law, I hope these are isolated situations we can swiftly resolve.
> Steph Sherer
> Executive Director
> Americans for Safe Access
All of which raises the interesting possibility Kampia is down on me
not because of something I did or said, or even because he doesn't
want to have to hear me out as to why I think he's wrong about
ibogaine and cannabis, but simply because I head a marijuana network
that is bigger than his organization, powered more by volunteerism
than money--and he's been unable to shut us down by buying away our
people because there just are too many of us!
So it's unfortunate that we can't just talk, since minds are
sometimes changed through the interactions of two people (Allan Clear
and Dimitri, for instance).
If I could talk to Rob Kampia, I would say ibogaine and marijuana are
related in the following ways--
1) Both are governed by the same guys at FDA and NIDA, who look at
ibogaine thru the lense of medical marijuana, as in, how will the
precedent of de-scheduling ibo affect medical marijuana?
2) Both are glutamate antagonistic, serotonin-enhancing
hallucinogens; they use the same pathways, so that ibogaine's anti-
addictiveness casts doubt on the addictiveness of cannabis. (The
psychedelic link drives Stroup crazy-- he wants to associate it with
alcohol, which is an addictive, opioid agonist. Maybe that's why he'd
rather be associated with heroin trials than ibogain access.)
3) Because of common mechanism, ibogaine and cannabis turn out to be
effective in the treatment of the same diseases (e.g: Hep C, HIV,
addicition, bi-polar), and will in the future be used as adjunct
therapies in the treatment of these diseases.
4) After ibogaine treatment, use of alcohol, but not marijuana, tends
to provoke relapse. One night you get really drunk and suddenly it
seems like a real great idea to do a bag of smack. . Marijuana
doesn't do that. So success with ibogaine often consists of switching
your pattern of drug consumption from alcohol and tobacco to pot, LSD
and 'shrooms. Turning the methadone dependent into medical marijuana
5) Ibogaine nullifies the "gateway effect" argument. Not only is it a
"gateway back" from hard drugs, remember the real drug warriors also
consider psychedelics to be part of the slippery slope to coke and
dope, so an anti-addictive psychedelic is anathema!
So if it's unfortunate that we can't talk, at least I can circulate
these ideas, and ibogaine may become a little more mainstream. What I
would say to you guys is that if you want to put on your own ibogaine
forum, if you think I'm such a drawback, go ahead and do it!
It doesn't even cost that much. And best of all, Tyler tells me that
the 3 freshmen he has who want to work on it are all coeds! Both of
you guys are probably younger than me, so you might have a chance
PS: I think it's bad form to be hassling ASA what with Ed Rosenthal
facing that new indictment. ASA is a Rosenthal front. Patrick, do
they get money from John Gilmore? I know Gilmore is backing Ed's
defense, or at least did so last time.
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