[Ibogaine] correction

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Sun Oct 8 09:03:38 EDT 2006

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mason Shipley [mailto:maseshipley at gmail.com]
> Sent: 06 October 2006 17:04
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Ibogaine] correction
> Having spent much of my time in "the rooms" which are 12 step meetings
> for those here who have never had the investigation prior to the
> contempt part happen for them, I hate to ruin anyone's terminal
> uniqueness, but the personality squabbles that shouldn't happen, yet
> always do and infighting are absolutely the same as what you find in
> any large organisation dealing with "recovery" in its many forms. No
> difference at all really except the power structure is a little
> different here, not necessarily in a bad way, in the rooms no matter
> what you have to say, no matter how true, insightful or correct, would
> be ignored out of hand if you weren't "clean" because nothing you say
> is worth listening to if you have no clean time, it's meaningless
> fluff coming from a person who can't even help themselves or accept
> the help being offered, so it will be met with being patronized or
> outright contempt, whereas here it's merely ignored, or taken up by
> half a dozen people who were never even on drugs in the first place
> and like to listen to themselves talk endlessly. Which is another
> difference, anywhere else when you're dealing with addiction, not one
> word you have to say would be heard by anyone, if you've never been an
> addict, especially if you happen to be a doctor who treats addicts
> (prepare to find a new career or get tar and feathered).
> It would be nice if addicts didn't behave like addicts, but for some
> reason I don't see that ever happening, no matter the level of hands
> on policing, monitoring, rules and whatnot. One of the largest
> addiction oriented forums I used to read a long time ago which was a
> moderated list primarily designed for doctors and scientists in the
> addiction field, generated so much ranting and hate mail, this from
> the "treatment professionals" talking to one another, that it made
> itself useless in a short span of time. For what its worth I'm talking
> about the addiction-l list which many here may have been part of at
> one time or another, I won't even start on the large methadone forums.
> Considering how emotionally loaded many of the topics are, the
> majority of the participants being addicts and the new twist of a
> schedule I psychedelic substance with endless lawsuits and ego wars
> being at the center of all this, the most remarkable thing is that all
> of it works at all, much less as well as it seems to.
> -Mase


OK, maybe I'm just being a bit contentious here, but I want to say
something. It fucking bugs me when anyone, addict or otherwise, goes on some
pathetic rant about how "no one else can understand me or help me because
they are not the same as me." We are all the same, man. The human condition
is the human condition. This whole thing some people have about "not being
the same as me" is just another aspect of the basic behavioural pattern of
addiction. It's just a way of cutting yourself off from feedback, a way of
mentally isolating yourself. It's pure bullshit. Imo of course.


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