[Ibogaine] from methadone list - Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Thu Mar 30 13:36:13 EST 2006

>I'm saying there is a place for abusive language in the therapeutic 

LOL, somehow I'm having a LOT of trouble equating "abusive" and 
"therapeutic" in any process whatsoever Nick.
You never actually answered my question- have you ever been a "fucking 
junkie" Nick, or are you merely projecting your own ideas about what serves 
"junkies" best and what is most "therapeutic" for "junkies"?
Peace and love.
"If God dropped acid, would he see people?"  ~Steven Wright

Peace and love.
ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list - Herman Joseph on stigma and 

Hey Alberto,

It is not so much about creating offense, more about being real. NLP is fine 
and has its place. Likewise encounter therapy. With the latter you can use 
more abusive language if it expresses what you feel. I am not suggesting 
that you should start a session by saying to the client, "Yo fuckwit you're 
in a right fucking state!" I'm saying there is a place for abusive language 
in the therapeutic process. I'm also saying that you have to watch a little 
the "poor baby" routine with this nice guy approach. It's the easiest thing 
in the world to be the addict's friend. You just don't show them the place 
where they don't want to go and they will love you forever. This is what I 
see Peter Cohen doing.

Generally, I support what people like Herman Joseph and Peter Cohen are 
trying to do. But there is also the side of this movement that is, to me, a 
few mindy academics making pseudo-humanistic pronouncements without 
awareness or experience. It's this side of it that I also bring up. You 
cannot so easily resolve addiction with the higher mind, imo. It's more 
reptilian brain stuff. There need to be deep rooted changes at this level. 
Stuff needs to happen experientially - maturation, resolution of conflict, 
increased awareness of the inner dynamic, redirection of energy - for most 
this is the case. I don't make pronouncements for everybody.


-----Original Message-----
From: Alberto Sola [mailto:plago at hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 March 2006 02:50
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list - Herman Joseph on stigma and 

Medical profesionals, should treat everybody with respect. The slang terms 
are both offensive and give no benefit for the patients. Those terms are 
judgemental and make the patient doctor comunication more difficult. On top 
of that like all slang the terms are not scientifically adecuate. We would 
not write them in a medical journal. I agree with Howard we have to promote 
the right language. Slowly will change the attitudes, it's called 
neurolinguistic programing.

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