[Ibogaine] Boaz Wachtal update
ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Mon Mar 20 13:53:42 EST 2006
In friendliest terms, this "strychnine in LSD" thing is a complete myth, not
to burst any bubbles.
Shit acid, no problem believing- strychnine no- won't you DIE, or at least
Be Poisoned if you eat strychnine? Think about it.
Strychnine in LSD?
Looking into the origin of the strychnine rumor, some slim basis for it can
be found. One report in the professional literature was by Sid Schnoll
(Schnoll, SH & Vogel, WH (1971) New Engl J Med 284(14):791) who reported a
positive thin-layer chromatography (TLC) result in a sample of LSD. TLC is a
screening test only and not suited for definite identification. When Sid was
contacted he said that, to the best of his recollection, the sample had only
a trace of strychnine and that it was never confirmed with another method.
The other report of note comes from the popular press: Albert Hofmann's LSD:
My problem child. In the book, Albert reported that strychnine had been sold
as LSD powder, two people had ingested it and one had died. When contacted,
Albert could not provide details of how he analyzed the sample presented to
him or any information on the clinical course of these two people, but said
that this event had occured in 1970 and that no toxicologic analyses had
been performed on any clinical specimens. It should be noted that in this
case, LSD was not involved. LSD was not adulterated with strychnine, but
rather strychnine was represented as being LSD.
The first published reports of strychnine contaminated LSD predate 1970 and
have of course persisted, even being enshrined in the American Psychiatric
Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th
ed.), despite the lack of any conclusive evidence.
Strychnine in LSD?
From: lamontg at u.washington.edu
Subject: RUN FOR YOUR LIVES ITS STRYCHNINE!
Date: 8 Apr, 1993
On the issue of strychnine in LSD:
The following text was written by Alexander T. Shulgin in response to the
overwhelming misconception that strychnine is commonly found in street
samples of LSD:
"The observation of strychnine as being present in any street drug, as a
by-product, or a contaminant, or an impurity has never been documented. It
is a natural plant product, as are the ergots which are used in the
synthesis of LSD. But they come from totally unrelated plants; there has
never been a report of strychnine and an ergot alkaloid co-existing in a
single species. So if the two materials are together in a drug sample, it
could only be by the hand of man. I have personally looked a large number of
illicit street offerings and have never detected the presence of strychnine.
The few times that I have indeed found it present, have been in legal
exhibits where it usually occurred in admixture with brucine (also from the
plant Strychnos nux-vomica) in criminal cases involving attempted or
The same argument applies to the myth that occasionally surfaces, that
strychnine occurs in the white tufts of peyote. This is equally
fraudulent -- it has never been reported in that cactus or any other
Furthermore, it should probably be spelled out that strychnine is not needed
to bond LSD to blotter paper, nor is strychnine a breakdown product of LSD.
these are probably the two most commonly repeated gross misconceptions.
The source of the "strychnine is commonly found in LSD" myth may be somewhat
grounded in truth. For example, in "LSD: My Problem Child" Albert Hofmann
cites a case in the late sixties of Strychnine being found in an "LSD"
sample that was a white powder. However, what is commonly claimed is that
strychnine is found in a significant percentage of LSD, specifically blotter
LSD, which is *not* true. Shulgin's note that he has analyzed many samples
of LSD and never found strychnine is backed up by published analyses done by
PharmChem and the LA County Street Drug Analysis program, which likewise
never found any strychnine.
This is intuitively backed up by the fact that a 5mm x 5mm "standard" square
of blotter LSD only weights about 2mg and if the paper itself was made
completely out of pure strychnine it is still on the very low end of
Strychnine's threshold of activity.
Strychnine is not the cause of tracers, cramps, nausea, or amphetamine-like
LSD-effects. Its possible that poorly synthesized LSD might have other ergot
derivatives in it, which might contribute to the harsh body load that some
get on taking LSD. Also, the very close chemical relatives 1-Methyl-LSD and
1-Acetyl-LSD (which break down into LSD in aqueous solution) might be
present in some street samples and might contribute to the harsh body load.
(Petter Stafford has claimed in his _Psychedelics Encyclopedia_ that
1-Acetyl-LSD is supposedly "smoother" than d-LSD -- thus "strychnine laced
acid" may acutally be pure d-LSD, while "pure lsd" may be 1-Acetyl-LSD or
some substitute). And the chemicals iso-LSD and lumi-LSD which are breakdown
products of LSD might contribute to the body loading on some trips,
particularly via a hypothetical synergistic effect. Given this plethora of
possible chemicals in street "LSD", its not needed to look to a chemical
which has hardly ever been found in analyzed samples to explain variations
in the strength and "cleanliness" of street acid.
Its also possible that LSD itself simply causes adverse physical effects,
particularly muscle cramping, in persons suceptible to it. The reported side
effects of LSD (the nausea and apparent CNS stimulant effects) are commonly
reported side effects of seritonergic drugs such as fluoxetine (Prozac) and
buspirone (Buspar), and also are commonly reported (and typically more
severe) with other psychedelics like Mescaline.
Or its quite likely that the "strychnine" reactions to LSD are entirely
psychosomatic. Both Leary ("The Psychedelic Experience") and Lilly
("Programming and Metaprogramming...", "Center of the Cyclone") have each
observed this reaction in people who cannot handle the surge of emotion
associated with a trip.
Further advice would be to avoid methylxanthines (caffiene, theophylline in
tea, etc) prior to dosing. Some have noted a possible synergistic effect
between them and LSD causing, or contributing, to a harsh body load during a
trip. And prior use of dramamine may alleviate the nausea sometimes
associated with LSD, and other psychedelic drugs (although it may also
effect the quality of the trip -- Shulgin has noted in PiHKAL that he shuns
the use of anti-nauseants in order to experience the effects of the
psychedelic, both good and bad, with no possible interference).
In summary, it can't be said that we know specifically why sometimes acid
feels "cleaner" than other times. However, based on the availability of
plausible explanations, and the evidence of drug analysis, and general
implausiblity of the whole strychnine concept, we can conclude that it isn't
due to any concentration of strychnine. Also, while it can't completely be
ruled out, the presence of strychnine in LSD is so minimal that the majority
of LSD users will never once come across it.
From: Colonel Mode
Subject: There is no strychnine. None, none, none.
Date: 6 Mar 1992
To my knowledge, the only plants that contain strychnine are the Asian tree,
Strychnos nux-vomica, and perhaps a few close relatives in the genus
Strychnos. This is not to say that there are definitely no plants outside of
the genus Strychnos that contain strychnine, but all of the posts to this
newsgroup that claim strychnine is found in "X" that I have read have been
Strychnine is not found in Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, peyote, LSD,
discount luncheon meats, Chilean grapes, or even modern-day rat poisons.
The most likely place to find strychnine is in myths posted to alt.drugs
based on hearsay and other unreliable sources.
Read "The Botany and Chemistry of the Hallucinogens", by Richard Evans
Shultes and Albert Hofmann. They are respected scientists who know what they
are talking about. Don't take my word for it. Certainly don't take the word
of authors of flakey pamphlets or usenet randoms who spout myths heard from
From: George Root
Subject: Re: What are the different kinds of LSD?
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994
>From 1972 to 1977 i was Director of Florida's anonymous street drug testing
program (Clearwater Free Clinic/Drug Analysis Project) and later was a
research associate with UpFront, Inc. in Miami (1978 & 79). During this
period of time i was directly familiar with the results from our analytical
labs and those operating in California, Oregon and Detroit. I recall NO
instances of samples of (actual) LSD being combined with strychnine, brucine
or amphetamines and derivitives of amphetamine. (Which is not to say that
there were no instances of people intentionally co-dosing with other drugs
such as amphetamine; seems to me there were some clinical experiments where
such a combination was tested and i recall people telling me about instances
when they had done the same.)
Of course, there were samples that were out-and-out misrepresentations.
Generally these were easily distinguished from legitamate LSD by such signs
as dosage quantity and form. Strychnine, brucine and amphetamine are
typically active at dosage levels in the milligram ranges which are
considerably higher than that of LSD. I also recall that there was a time
when "white crosses" were analyzed to be brucine rather than amphetamine.
In the early 70's the typical dosage range of LSD on the street was from
~100 ug to ~300 ug. From the late 70's to the present (far as i know) the
typical dosase is ~40 ug to ~100 ug (with some exceptions, the "Bay Area"
blotters are typically in higher dose ranges than that of "Southern Cal.")
It may well be, from what folks tell me, that typical dose ranges have crept
up again from the typical lows of the 80's. It has been many years since i
have been directly involved with qualitative/quantitative analysis programs.
The physiological signs which people attribute to being due to "bad acid" or
to stychinine, amphetamine and the like seem to show up in the literature
for clinical experimentation with LSD. So, it is likely that to some extent
these effects are potentially found in association with LSD itself.
Although, based on field work and other experience i am inclined to think
that factors such as dietary, endocrine rythems & diurnal cycles, as well as
set & setting influence the extent to which undesirable effects may exhibit
with various entheogens. The Yachajruna (Quijos, Ecuador) who was my
informant was very particular about diet and lunar phase when using
(enetama) Banisteriopsis sp. Many traditional users of entheogens (i.e.,
shaman's as categorized in anthropology) insist on "purification(s)" being
performed before utilization of an entheogen.
Further, there are possibly effects which might be attributed to the agent
(LSD) such as by-products of synthesis and degradation products. It seems
reasonable that this would increase the likelyhood of undesirable effects...
yet even this is not real clear as there is so much variation between
individuals and individual trips. I have observed people who had signs of
discomfort yet reported no subjective discomfort and vice-versa.
All exogenous agents seem to produce varying degrees of
Peace and love.
"Unless your past perishes, you are doomed.
Do you know that?
Your future must differ from your past.
The future must always differ from the past."
Sophia, in "Valis"- Philip K. Dick
Peace and love,
ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor Under the Influence
Cont. HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Brookshaw" <jiggy9 at hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boaz Wachtal update
> Strychnine!!!!!!!!! That what they kick shit acid with. The kids think its
> real, but it only about 75mic+.3% strychnine. Kills rats!!!
> Lucky I ain't a rat, one time loss
> only, stick with mushrooms, you know what you are going to get. lolol
> Oh by the way anyone remember Speck Blues, they where Stryc. Much
> preferred myself Dexedrine, much much smoother. Or Methamphetamine, if you
> got a good source. Anyway glad for this day that I ain't into all that
> crap no more.
> Blessings and heart felt love to all. Paul
> Strength Power and Honour, Respect!!!
>>From: "Preston Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>>To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boaz Wachtal update
>>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:59:52 -0500
>>seems to me everything you are describing is due to either the LSD being
>>not real, or something that could, and would, be solved by ending
>>prohibition and legalizing all drugs- that way we would know the
>>impurities (what impurities are there in real LSD btw, and if your hands
>>and feet were getting numb, I hope you stopped buying from that dealer as
>>he/she was ripping you off), there were or weren't, that it was safe, that
>>it was actually "real" in the first place.
>> Nothing you've described here even comes close to describing any LSD
>> I've ever, and I mean ever, eating.
>>Peace, love and truth.
>>"Unless your past perishes, you are doomed.
>>Do you know that?
>>Your future must differ from your past.
>>The future must always differ from the past."
>>Sophia, in "Valis"- Philip K. Dick
>>Peace and love,
>>ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
>>Editor Under the Influence
>>Cont. HighTimes mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "WARRENTHERIOT"
>><warrentheriot at comcast.net>
>>To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:24 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boaz Wachtal update
>>>"Lysergic acid" as a seratonin agonist can be extremely dangerous to the
>>>circulatory system. Why does LSD make your hands and feet numb, even if
>>>isn't a dangerous condition like ergotism? What about the side products
>>>during manufacturing process that don't get properly filtered out? How do
>>>you know they will be before you take something advertised as LSD? What
>>>about very old acid that didn't cause any good feelings, but just a bunch
>>>aches and pains that seemed to last for years? I am a lot more concerned
>>>about physical reactions to the Lysergic acid component than I am of
>>>effects of the Diethylamide Tartrate derivative, except for the feeling
>>>that I would never be able to look at a circuit board or an electronic
>>>schematic again without freaking out. I had the feeling once that I was
>>>being sucked up into the sky and would die like that. Thank God for
>>>But never acid again for me thanks. What the American Indians use from
>>>cactus has been proven effective and safe for hundreds of years for
>>>spiritual enlightenment, but I haven't seen that for 32 years. Too bad
>>>swine in the government feel so threatened by enlightenment.
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