[Ibogaine] Daniel Pinchbeck's new book in NY Times

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Tue Jun 27 08:07:27 EDT 2006

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: 26 June 2006 02:53
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [Ibogaine] Daniel Pinchbeck's new book in NY Times
> --- edward conn <wardconn at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > What is it about psychedelics and narcissism that go hand in
> > hand...is it
> > the living in ones own self created reality i.e fantasy...that
> > becomes 'mind
> > manifested' or 'turned inside out' ...after all is'nt that what
> > breaking
> > open the head is?...letting the contents out...only to find
> > eventually
> > through much knashing of teeth that they're delusion. Hey, this is a
> > journey
> > after all.
> >
> > The fact of the matter is that taking such 'ritualistic' substances
> > creates
> > a circumstance that to complete can take easily 10 years plus, to
> > work
> > through, psychodynamic, unconscious and transpersonal or sublime
> > levels of
> > existence. In which time one is highly susceptible to any form of
> > information especially 'conspiracy'...which is really saying 'I can't
> > live
> > in this world...it's unjust' , but how much of that is about
> > perception and
> > aspects of the victim/hero position. Do we need heros or do we need
> > Selves??
> Yeah but that won't sell copies of your book or keep your career going
> ;)
> > One of the reasons. limited coverage is given to the psychedelic
> > position is
> > that,
> Want to know a secret? The reason limited coverage is given to the
> psychedelic position is, because most of the people representing it are
> nutcases, or at least come off that way.  Ed, no offense, but most of
> what you've posted to this forum is the last year or so, falls into the
> more unstable then most of the crackheads category, or I am channeling
> pure narcissism and think I'm a great teacher. Please get in line
> behind Lee Albert and Daniel Pinchbeck ;)

Vector, man,

I always find your posts interesting and stimulating, but I think it would
be cooler still if you could not paraphrase your judgments about people to
make it sound like they're part of some cosmic gameshow you're mc'ing. This
means...don't say "no offense" when you're going to put out negative
judgments, and please don't speak/write as though you're speaking for a
whole bunch of people or a consensus of opinion. You wanna be offensive just
do it straight, it's cool. Otherwise I really enjoy what you write.

Personally, I actually pretty much 100% agree with Ed here. And you too. I
think 10 years to process an ibogaine experience is about right, if it's a
good one. And, yes, it's par for the course to be attracted to all sorts of
weird theories and beliefs in that time, and, yes, finally, you're going to
have to go back to basics and learn how to make simple relationships work,
once all the psychedelic weirdness and excitement and conspiracy theories
have worn a bit thin. Some people don't make the last bit so well and get
stranded out there. I like it that you try and bring them back in.


> For real, I haven't really found any great source of spiritual insight
> online, most of all not in the psychedelic ranting forums. I have found
> interesting people, the one's I usually like and start listening to
> have a sense of humor about themselves and life in general. If I had to
> define a single quality, that would be it. Yeah, you/us are all the
> greatest smartest people in the world, but after someone writes 10 long
> messages about everything without even a trace of humor, I usually stop
> listening to them.
> Terrence Mckenna who all of you love to copy, had a amazing and really
> funny sense of humor. I don't know how it is that not a single one of
> the pretenders to his throne, manage to get that part.
> With ibo there's of course the one other main ingredient. It's not how
> stable you are, or what a nice guy you are, the main question is, have
> you done it, did you stay clean, no matter your other problems, did you
> do it, or are you just talking shit to listen to yourself talk?
> Or if you were never a drug addict and whatever your personal problems
> are, do you genuinely want to help people, if so, are you having much
> success? and if you are, then much respect, because at the end of the
> day, that's what matters, whatever everyone's problems are.
> Out of all the people here that I don't know, I really like Sara
> because, I never sense some agenda or bunch of bullshit behind the
> words. I like Preston because he's painfully honest. I like Patrick
> because he's brilliantly twisted and mad talented and.... he DID IT,
> instead of talking bullshit about it. Patrick is also FUNNY and has a
> great sense of humor, about himself most of all. I like Howard because
> he's Howard :) I like a lot of people, if I stop to think about it, I
> think I like something about everyone on this list, I just stop reading
> when all the messianic personalities with no sense of humor keep going
> on and on and on with their lectures.
> Ed, I even like you, I just think you're just as fucked up as everybody
> else, if not more so, no matter how many paragraphs of bs you write,
> name dropping grof, or whoever else you want. I'm sure you're very
> smart, great, so are all of your peers in the messianic group ;)
> .:vector:.
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