[Ibogaine] Ibogaine fatality paper

ekki ekkijdfg at gmx.de
Tue Jun 6 04:39:17 EDT 2006

Am 04.06.2006 um 22:33 schrieb Nick Sandberg:

> Hi Ekki, Uwe, Suester and others,
> I think this post and Uwe and Suester's comments here raise some very
> interesting issues. Personally, I am not convinced that the "Western  
> way" of
> giving ibogaine - usually in a darkened room with minimum intrusion -  
> really
> works so well, especially longer term. My gut feeling is that the Bwiti
> approach, with its much higher level of social interaction throughout  
> the
> session, is potentially a lot better. In the West, I think there is  
> this
> core belief in a lot of people that healing is something you do on  
> your own
> somewhere, away from the gaze of others, and it's this belief that is
> actually creating the problems people are seeking healing for. Maybe
> sometime someone will try more the African way here and see if results
> longer term are better.
> Nick

Hi Nick, good point i agree with you - except for the special case of  
opioid withdrawal. i think there is a reason why the bwitis do not take  
active junkies for detox within a traditional iboga initiation.

for long-term healing i´d like to say that ibogaine is just a drug, and  
one you cannot take too often, meaning it is basically a one-shot  
experience and as such it never can be a substitute for "spiritual"  
practice on a day-to-day basis.

but it would be nice to have a culture in the west doing ibogain in a  
techno-rave context and with a "higher level of social interaction",  
but not for detox, just for the sake of doing it, leaving it pretty  
open in terms of interpretation, psychologization, religious  
implications but still maintaining a "spiritual" vision.


>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg at gmx.de]
>> Sent: 29 May 2006 20:13
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine fatality paper
>> Am 28.05.2006 um 09:02 schrieb umaas at scientific-african.org:
>>> To be in a dark room with headphones on is really the opposite of the
>>> continuous
>>> social interactions and the "collective setting" as Rachel calls it -
>>> and as
>>> well as personally, we would prefer to do it the African way, it's
>>> obvious that
>>> different cultures are resulting in different needs as to be able to
>>> be on it's
>>> own or to profit from the collective support.
>>> Concerning lateral movements, you came to the same sesult as the
>>> African
>>> healers. Maybe it's interesting that at later stages of the ritual,
>>> they tell
>>> the candidate to move and even dance rapidly with "full body
>>> diadochokinesis",
>>> thus provoking new visions.
>> when detoxing from drugs having a minimum of interaction and input  
>> from
>> outside seemed perfect for me, but later on going out dancing using
>> mid-range doses of ibo added a whole new dimension and maybe helped to
>> digest the initial trip, also with the "emotional release" that comes
>> with jumping around to energetic music. never got much out of bwiti
>> music (guess you have to hear it life), while hard techno seems to be
>> ideal with ibo.
>> -ekki
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