[Ibogaine] Ibogaine fatality paper

slowone at hush.ai slowone at hush.ai
Sun Jun 4 18:22:51 EDT 2006

Solitary realization - possibly *any* realization - doesn't seem to 
translate into better ways of living as well as one might hope. 
After the excitement of insight fades, habits remain/return. 
Changing them is like physical therapy, something of a grind, and 
easiest to persevere with in a social context. The social context 
also seems to yield better insights, in my experience, which occur 
as solitary moments in ritual. I think that the best treatment mode 
would be the one that inspired people to stay connected with 
aftercare. Also note the involvement of the shaman in the ayahuasca 
healing that I posted before:


Whatever it takes to find someone or a group that you can truly 

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:33:29 -0700 Nick Sandberg 
<nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi Ekki, Uwe, Suester and others,
>I think this post and Uwe and Suester's comments here raise some 
>interesting issues. Personally, I am not convinced that the 
>"Western way" of
>giving ibogaine - usually in a darkened room with minimum 
>intrusion - really
>works so well, especially longer term. My gut feeling is that the 
>approach, with its much higher level of social interaction 
>throughout the
>session, is potentially a lot better. In the West, I think there 
>is this
>core belief in a lot of people that healing is something you do on 

>your own
>somewhere, away from the gaze of others, and it's this belief that 

>actually creating the problems people are seeking healing for. 
>sometime someone will try more the African way here and see if 
>longer term are better.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg at gmx.de]
>> Sent: 29 May 2006 20:13
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine fatality paper
>> Am 28.05.2006 um 09:02 schrieb umaas at scientific-african.org:
>> > To be in a dark room with headphones on is really the opposite 

>of the
>> > continuous
>> > social interactions and the "collective setting" as Rachel 
>calls it -
>> > and as
>> > well as personally, we would prefer to do it the African way, 
>> > obvious that
>> > different cultures are resulting in different needs as to be 
>able to
>> > be on it's
>> > own or to profit from the collective support.
>> >
>> > Concerning lateral movements, you came to the same sesult as 
>> > African
>> > healers. Maybe it's interesting that at later stages of the 
>> > they tell
>> > the candidate to move and even dance rapidly with "full body
>> > diadochokinesis",
>> > thus provoking new visions.
>> when detoxing from drugs having a minimum of interaction and 
>input from
>> outside seemed perfect for me, but later on going out dancing 
>> mid-range doses of ibo added a whole new dimension and maybe 
>helped to
>> digest the initial trip, also with the "emotional release" that 
>> with jumping around to energetic music. never got much out of 
>> music (guess you have to hear it life), while hard techno seems 
>to be
>> ideal with ibo.
>> -ekki
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