[Ibogaine] ibogaine & suboxone (buprenorphine / naloxone) and /or subutex...

BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com
Thu Dec 14 13:30:08 EST 2006

In a message dated 12/14/2006 10:40:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
rwd3 at cox.net writes:
               Thanx for the shout out Ron. I heard Dr. Kamlett speak about 
this at a  conference a while back. He recommends detoxing from the bup for 2 
weeks before  a session. Seizures have occurred with bup also, but it's rare. 
Some people just  have seizures pure and simple, and they don't find out they 
are susceptible to  them until they try to detox no matter what the drug but 
especially alcohol  and benzo's. Not everybody has them with benzo's and alcohol 
either. Go  figure. It happens though. I would think that the best thing to 
do would be try  and find a doc who will prescribe short acting opiates and 
take them for two  weeks before your treatment. Having said that let me just say 
that doing that  wouldn't work for me 'cause once I start that fire I'm done. 
I'd do 2 weeks  worth up in 2 days. But being motivated for help would get 
most through it  without going nuts on the pills. I've heard of this type of 
thing happening and  it works pretty good. Ron I wish this would work for you 
buddy but I don't think  you can find a doc to prescribe opiates by the truck 
load. No offense, just  goin' on what you say here bro. I just wanted to say to 
yall that when I'm  in my men's group in the morning we have meditation for 10 
minutes, I do MY  version of praying and I think of all yall when I do. 
Thinkin' of you Ron made  me think of doing it for everybody else here.It helps me 
and yall can't stop me  from doin' it. So there!! (mmmmmlaaa sticking my tongue 
           May the good  Lord....shine a light on you.......make every song 
ya sing ...your favorite  tune.     (Jagger/Richards)

I  am  layman in science and medicine.  Some folks like Warren,  Schmooly, 
Matt,  and certainly Howard and Randy of course,  when  he's not swapping 
jokes with the Cap'n know much more about all this  stuff.  My experience is 
just that,  my experience, and it has  certain similarities to your 
situation.  I had an extreme physical  dependence on oxys @12 80's a day , 
really,  not inflated ....and  wolfing down 24mg. of xanex a day.  I would go 
into opiate  withdrawals  every 6 hrs,  no amount of pharmaceutical meds  
could get me euphoric.  Maybe H if I could have found it,  but  it is so 
short  acting,  I would have had to score every 4 hrs.  and take tremendous 
doses.  I am 56 yoa,  hep c,  no  visible symptoms from it yet.  I took Ibo 
twice.  The experts  all agree ,  I think,  that IBO is not that affective 
with  Suboxone or buprenorphine because apparently it is longer lasting than  
methadone.  Some providers will not fool with Bub or Sub addicts  because a 
session can be weeks long.  I always switched over to the  short acting 
opiates b/4 a session,  but in retrospect,  I may  not have gotten all the 
bup / sub out of my body.  I was given the  methadone protocol and took more 
IBO in a session than most ,   although I didn't want the FLOOD because of my 
fear of the benzo  withdrawals and age.  The final results were this:  I got 
thru  the opiate withdrawals without many of the symptoms.  What was left was 
a new problem,  me.... a complete physical wreck,   unable  to 
function.....weak,  no appetite,  dehydrated,  no energy  at all and a few GI 
My provider was in contact w/all on the  list in the know as well as other 
M.D."s  I went back to bup  immediately after each session for relief.  The 
first was 1  week,  the second I gave myself 3 weeks for recovery and used 
before  then b/c I felt the same physically  and was not willing to go thru  
the suffering afterwards.  My next step was a detox w/ bup/sub.   It was 
short and the same thing happened,  except I had opiate w/d  symptoms...Beat 
to shit, no sleep,  no appetite, and on it  goes.  I am now taking sub, 
hoping for a long taper and as gentle  detox as possible.  I believe 
suboxone/ bup has a nasty bite that is  underplayed by the manufacturers and 
M> D.'s selling the program.   It all sucks when kicking.  I hope this time 
that I can get back into  exercise so I can produce some endorphins as I 
reduce the bup.  The  idea is that my brain will produce needed feel good 
chems at the same rate  as I reduce the artifical ones.  May be a pipe 
dream.. I am convinced  age is an important factor in recovery and one needs 
a lot of down  time.  Paul, on the list ,  and speaking freely, went thru the 
same hell,  but he is younger.  he was able to eat, drink..all  wih the help 
of a close friend and following Sara's plan.. So,  there  it is.  I can plug 
you into a physcian off list that knows a lot  about IBO,  although he would 
never administer it in the  States.  It   all sucks.  I envy the young who 
were  just doing the short acting heroin and went white water  rafting the  
day after their session.  ron, grass hopper,  for watching  eyes,  all meds I 
took were Rx'd legally,  IBO out of US.   The suboxone program is a CASH COW 
for docs and maybe  as bad as  methadone for withdrawals...one advantage is 
you are not tied to the  clinic.  Luv,  hope,  feel better....someone chime 
in and  make her laugh..I can't do it today..Ed would say I never could,  but 
he's kool too.  Just has a thing about bugs( computer smile and peace  
offering lest I revert back to Cambodia mindset and Phoenix which is bad  ju 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "luis garcia"  <dreamoftomorrow at msn.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>;  <HSLostof at aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:44  AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine & suboxone (buprenorphine / naloxone)  and /or 
subutex (buprenorphine)

> hi, my name is luis. i  hardly ever post but i always read the posting 
> here. but now i have a  serious concern. i've taken ibogaine twice. it did 
> the job both  times; 1st: for methadone and heroin dependence 
> together...but  unfortunately i stayed clean for only 6 months (i know i 
> know...my  fault...no real follow up therapy and all that but what's done 
> is  done, plus i was not too serious about my sobriety, i was 21 and i'm 29 
> now). the 2nd time for heroin alone, but again, i did it in late  march 
> this year and stayed clean till about 45-50 days ago. but this  time when i 
> went back to using, my run didn't last long and i found a  doctor who 
> prescribed me suboxone (an opioid agonist/antagonist)  containing 
> buprenorphine 6mgs and naloxone 2mgs. so far it's been  working like a 
> charm. but i don't plan on staying on this forever.  detox from suboxone is 
> supposedly very mild on a slow taper, but  knowing myself; dealing with the 
> discomfort of any type of detox, and  knowing the efficiency of ibogaine 
> assisted detox, i have the feeling  i'd have a hard time. some my question 
> is: (to anyone who's  experienced in this particular field concerning 
> suboxone or subutex)  i was wondering if ibogaine is suitable for detox 
> from suboxone or  subutex? any information would be greatly appreciated.
> thank  you.
> - l u i s . . . .
> p.s. - i'm especially  looking forward to responses from either howard, 
> patrick, or  marko.
> p.p.s. - thanks  again.
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