[Ibogaine] in the interest of dissemeinating usless information

Nick Sandberg nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Sun Aug 20 16:06:31 EDT 2006


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:Matt at ITSupport.net]
  Sent: 19 August 2006 23:51
  To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
  Subject: [Ibogaine] in the interest of dissemeinating usless information


  I had occasion to take ibogaine again last night.  I had what amounted to
a pretty tame experience.  It was a little weird, somehow familiar and yet
alien at the same time.  I took one capsule (I estimated these things at
like 120mg give or take 30mg or so) at 7:30PM and waited.  It was strange
how it did nothing for an hour and then all of a sudden started rolling in
very powerfully.  The way it seemed to come on with this unrelenting, and
ever increasing magnitude started to scare me.  It started to feel familiar
but with that familiarity came a vivid recollection of the enormous power of
this stuff and that recollection was even more frightening.  Once again,
similar to last time (last December) although worse, I had terribly death
anxiety.



  I remember when I first did ibogaine there was only one death that I was
aware of and there was evidence that she had mixed heroin with ibogaine so I
really wasn't terribly concerned at that time.  There were later occasions
when I was concerned I might die but I usually didn't care over much.  It
was scary yes but the way I used to use IV drugs I would wonder as I was
injecting if I was going to die from what I was doing or not.  I used to
knowingly risk death on a nearly daily basis and I took it as simply part of
my existence.  So on those occasions when I did ibogaine and felt like I
might die I often thought, "oh well that's not exactly a new feeling."  But
I never stayed clean from any of those attempts and so I gave up on ibogaine
for several years.  Then 3 years ago I took the dose that got me clean.  By
then there were a number of deaths reported and more suspected and they
weren't all so easily dismissed by health complications or mixing drugs.  It
started to appear as though people were dying from ibogaine without any
medically meaningful explanation, like they were simply ceasing to live.  So
when I took the dose that ended my methadone and heroin dependence I didn't
just have death anxiety I actually became convinced I was going to die.  I
was sure of it and at the time it scared me but I resigned myself to it.  I
thought even death was preferable to the existence I had.  So then last
December when I took it I had pretty bad death anxiety and it prevented me
from taking as large of a dose as I had originally planned.  I ended up
taking most of it one night and the rest the next morning.



  So this time I thought I would take these capsules one at a time really
slowly and try and avoid being too overwhelmed so I could hopefully avoid
some of that.  But my feelings and view on the whole dying on ibogaine thing
have fundamentally changed from when I was using it as an addiction
interrupter.  I might could get with the idea that spiritual and or
emotional growth is worth risking ones life for, and simply take the risk
and see what happened.  But my real concern with dying now is that I am
engaged to be married and I really, really love this girl and even though I
wouldn't be around to see the effect, I am crystal clear that I do not want
to leave my death on ibogaine as her legacy.  So from the very first capsule
all of this crap started coming up.



  That sense of mounting, inexorable, force coming on reached a plateau
within probably just 15 minutes but that little taste had me seriously
reconsidering the whole ibogaine idea.  What's more is I started to see that
in a very real way, doing ibogaine is a selfish act in my current
circumstances.  To even be willing to risk my life (no matter how small the
actual risk may be) given my situation seemed selfish to me.  After an hour
I had pretty well acclimated to the state and I decided to take another
capsule.  I had already started down the road so I felt I should see it
through.  So two hours after taking the first capsule I took a second.



  Once again almost exactly an hour later I felt that rising wave of force
coming up and I got scared.  My mind started spinning these horrible death
scenarios in ways that were really uncomfortable.  Like these fucked up
ideas that I would accidentally choose death myself because of my own
inability to see clearly what was happening to me.  And I was struck even
more forcefully that what I was doing was completely selfish and really
beyond the pail.  My girlfriend and I are both in NA and although I am not
sold on all of the propaganda of the twelve step programs I do believe in
the spiritual principles and the value that they bring to a human life.  And
I have made NA my community, almost everyone I hang out with is in NA, I go
to NA events and conventions, I am surrounded by people from NA.  And I saw
how under these circumstances to enroll my girlfriend and some of my NA
friends in the notion that I should even consider doing ibogaine just seemed
horribly selfish and fucked up.  I mean never mind that I know, and many of
you also know, that ibogaine is not fairly consigned to the generic "drug"
category, but to people in NA who have no experience of it, it is.  In other
words, my being right about ibogaine being different does not make it ok for
me to simply throw away the sensibilities of the community I am choosing to
be a part of.  I have to respect their sensibilities if I am to really call
myself one of them.



  And once again within about 15 minutes it leveled off.  So I deliberated
for 3 hours on whether or not to call the whole thing off and finally
decided that having come that far I should try to see it through and took a
third capsule.  Now having written it I can see that I am either really
dense or just fucking stubborn.  So predictably the wave crashed in (this
time in only about 15 minutes probably because by then my stomach was
completely empty) I started to panic again and I was facing the dilemma
squarely again.  My fear was genuine enough, I simply did not know with
certainty that I wouldn't die, I strongly suspected I would not but that
tiny hairs breadth of doubt can just open up like a cavern on ibogaine.  And
I have absolutely no business risking my life for what are somewhat dubious
reasons just based on what my death would mean to those I love.  So that was
it.  I called it off at that point.  Whether or not I got enough to make a
difference to the poisonous moods of my daily life lately I don't know yet.
But I guess in not continuing last night I have essentially committed
myself, no matter how unattractive it looks, to the a more traditional
western medicine approach.  I'm going to give anti-depressants and therapy
another shot at it.



  I got some other insights into my mind and my nature that I feel are
valuable but all in all I pretty well aborted before the really powerful
shit kicked up.  Last time I felt pretty clearly that I never wanted to do
ibogaine again, this time I don't have that sense so much, just the sense
that I have no business doing it.  So I won't rule it out for the rest of my
life or anything, but my circumstances would have to be a little different
and considering the differences that would be necessary (like not being with
this girl anymore) than I certainly hope not to have them come to pass.

  Matt



   Hi Matt,



  Thanks for sharing your experience. I really appreciate your openness and
honesty.



  It reminds me of something that I experienced when I took some ayahuasca a
couple of years ago. I was repeatedly confronted with almost a demand from
inside to leave my girlfriend, who I was very happy with. I was like "No,
no" and it just kept coming up, for hours and hours. At some stage I
vomitted for a long time and felt a little better. Later, when I was down
from the aya, I came to realize that the drug was simply pushing me where I
didn't want to go, towards my vulnerability, as I have a pattern of being
hopelessly co-dependent in relationships and generally not really
confronting strong women. Sounds to me like the ibogaine was doing a similar
thing to you. It was pushing you into saying Yes to death in your mind, and
that you had the option to go with the Yes, and to see what happened - would
you really die, or would you go through it and be free of the fear of dying.
It would of course seem like a massive risk, because the fear beneath is
big. I think this is just how these drugs work, it's real russian roulette
encounter stuff and the challenge is to say Yes to whatever's offered, not
knowing where it will actually lead.



  I don't know if this rings at all true for you.



  Nick
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