[Ibogaine] MDMA Complementarity

Lee Albert myeboga at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Sep 25 08:20:27 EDT 2005


Hi Luke,
 
I feel some of what you do. There is a big difference between being mistaken about whether there was a green light or a red light at a junction based on sugggestion and the actual knowledge and deep knowing that one was buggered "for example" which can emerge with ibogaine. The exact details of such an event hardly matter, i.e. if your knickers were red or black. 
 
The thought that went through my head when I started to look at the mentioned articles on false memory was this. Is it possible that this person (who wrote the article) was sexually abused and as an act of repression seeks to undermine other peoples recall of memories by creating an elaborate study on the subject? Thats probably OTT but it did occur to me as I have heard many discuss false memory as a way to dismiss people who claim to have been sexually abused.
 
Of course sexual abuse falls into many catagories and some would qualify for false memory perhaps. But certain types of abuse are clearly unmistakeable and discussion of false memory in such cases is quite possibly an affront to the person and an act of repression/denial on the part of the questioner imo.
 
What hurt me was when my ex would say to me was I sure those things happened to me. I didn't argue with her as I felt it was undignified and I felt no need to prove anything. I just assured her I knew. However, I did feel a sense of lonliness and sadness at how difficult it was to simply state my own truth.
 
Lee

Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Lee, Ekki,
                 I haven't read too much about the false memory thing but it angers me to see books like The Myth of Repression written.  I think repression is a fact of human nature.  I guess I'm very sensitive to this because I find it an insult to my own experiences when someone goes to such stong lengths to disput something that is very real.  I found I could verify much of the repressed memories that came back to me after ibogaine.  It is unfortunate that there maybe dangerous or manipulative therapists out there who may be able to implant things into the minds of vunerable people and thus making it more difficult for the genuine people and therapys to be accepted by mainstream psychology futher repressing peoples knowlege. 
 
Luke

 
On 9/23/05, Lee Albert <myeboga at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Ekki,
 
I appreciate the info and links. Based on what you have wrote I would have to say that the dose level I had in mind is well below the level you describe - way below what i have experienced in the past. I would call it a threashold dose where you are beginning to connect to the effects but are not quite there. 
 
At the level I am interested in you can still connect somewhat to the bad feelings that you carry around but at the same time you can feel the warmth and the love that you can use to give yourself permission to look at these feelings. 
 
Regarding false memory. My use of MDMA (if I were to use it) would be to work with material already known to the person based on insight gained via ibogaine or in some cases perhaps a focusing on difficult areas which have not been resolved to any particular event - I guess here it could be open to false memory. Again any new material which were to surface would need to be checked later in a follow up mini-session of ibogaine to verify it based on what you have said about the possibility of false memory. 
 
The build up of unacknowledged shadow material via ibogaine can cause a form of emotional constipation which a very small slightly active dose of MDMA might help dislodge - as well as body work I imagine. I am refering to MDMA as a mini-tool alongside the main tool of ibogaine. 
 
BTW these are all exploratory thoughts.
 
Best regards,
 
Lee

ekki <ekkijdfg at gmx.de> wrote:
hi Lee
sorry if i did missunderstand you, but it sounded like you recommended 
to drop a pill every fortnight. thanks for the links. 
sure there will be no problems (except pimples and a hangover) for 
nearly everybody when taking it only rarely. however i don´t find there 
is much new stuff to experience or learn once you did it a few times 
(same with most psychedelics) . anyway i´m not strictly anti-x.
here is a list from switzerland about purity of street xtc:
http://www.eve-rave.ch/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=3085


Am 23.09.2005 um 11:27 schrieb Lee Albert:
>
> BTW what do you consider the characteristics of a therapeutic dose to 
> be? How would you describe them? 
you love everything and everybody and yourself. sure i imagine too it 
could be great for PTSD (postraumatic stuff) victims.

the way it changes perception of time and music is very interesting, 
especially the 808 or 909 42thefloor bassdrum develops a magic that is 
unmatched, you feel it right in your abdomen where your energy is 
centered and it´s very warm and completely still and not moving as if 
the music is a fixed sculpture.

once you realize with your heart that you only see yourself when 
looking at others and that you only hear yourself when listening to 
music you don´t need any X any more, but mdma can help you to get 
there. opens the heart chakra.

E sometimes can leave a shallow aftertaste: you make friends or party 
or have sex with strangers that you do not love without xtc or dance 
euphorically to some cheap hardtrance eurodance music that you would 
normally hate, and when it´s over you wake up like from a stupid dream. 

when working with a psychotherapist who uses suggetive methods to 
"unmask repressed material" chances are high that you unconsciously 
invent fictional bad things that happend to you while you were are 
child and in the long run this will make you miserable. this danger 
always exists in therapy but it is much higher when hypnosis or drugs 
are used.
this is not directly mdma related but psychologist prof. Elizabeth F. 
Loftus did some interesting research about that phenomena, also giving 
insight into the fragile way the memory works and how easily it can be 
manipulated:
http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/


> What range do you believe they fall into and does it not depend on 
> the person? Does weight have an effect? I would be interested in any 
> answers you may have. 

i already wrote 1-2mg/kg. of course there are individual differences in 
sensibility etc, but from my experience i can say i had a better time 
when dropping only one pill rather than when dropping 5 pills in one 
night. i also had a better time when a few weeks had passed since the 
last time of x-ing.

regards
ekki



Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.myeboga.com/amazinggrace.html.


My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.myeboga.com/network.html. 


























Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.myeboga.com/amazinggrace.html.


My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.myeboga.com/network.html. 






















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