[Ibogaine] alcoholism and cocaine addiction?

kiersten johnson kiers10 at mac.com
Thu Sep 22 16:21:57 EDT 2005


Hi folks,
Has anyone been effectively treated for alcoholism combined with  
cocaine addiction with ibogaine? If so, would someone please point me  
to the literature on this?
thanks,
Kiersten
On Sep 22, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Luke Christoffersen wrote:

> Hi Lee,
>          It sounds like it could be useful in the right context.  I  
> have a lot of blockage in expressing feelings but I guess it needs to  
> be used with a therapist too be effective and there doesn't seem to be  
> any around.  I'm not sure regular therapist would agree to an  
> experiment with this.  Also I think there's no way to know what's in  
> the street pills, there's been some dodgy pills.  I know of some cases  
> where pills contained a very potent hallucinogen which resulted in  
> some very bad reactions so this could also be a problem.
>  
> Luke
>
>  
> On 9/22/05, Lee Albert <myeboga at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Luke,Ekki,
>>  
>> MDMA should not be taken with ibogaine - I am stating that in case I  
>> gave a different impression. Ibogaine imo should be taken as neat as  
>> possible. My advice refered to:
>>  
>> 1. Preparing for ibogaine in the months leading up.
>> 2. Integration of material in the months after.
>> 3. Breaking of viscous cycles of self hate and emotional deprivation.
>> 4. Aid in facing anger and fear.
>>  
>> Regarding doses and effects. The kind of doses I have in mind are  
>> doses which might be described as slightly active. At this threashold  
>> level it is possible I believe to open up the emotional armour a  
>> little and explore emotions such as fear and anger and possibly  
>> release some of them. I have experienced release at this level where  
>> my body went into a kind of shaking tremor state when thinking on  
>> someone who I have a lot of anger towards but seem unable to forgive.  
>> I think the inability to process this anger is due in major part to  
>> fear as this person abused me at a very young age in a brutal way  
>> which traumatised me. The small dose of MDMA allowed me to break down  
>> some of the walls which were holding back my underlying feelings. So  
>> the tremors I had were perhaps a throwing off of fear laying the  
>> groundwork for anger release which eventually though compassion (for  
>> the stupid bastard) will lead to forgiveness I imagine. The goal of  
>> forgiveness being a kind of lamp to light the way.
>>  
>> Ibogaine on the other hand reveals but we are in an acute sense of  
>> self and thus may simply feel unable to face the anger/fear that  
>> emerges resulting from mini-sessions. We may get a build up of these  
>> unprocessed emotions. In mini sessions we can avoid quite a lot if we  
>> wish and have a situation where we are revealing and then all the  
>> time backing away. This is what I am concerned about. To complete the  
>> cycle of release.
>>  
>> The negative effects of MDMA you describe need to be put into  
>> context. These effects occur due to repeated and abusive use I  
>> imagine. There are many papers which describe the recovery time  
>> necessary after taking MDMA for the body to restore its normal  
>> serotonin function. I think 3 months. But that in the first place  
>> requires one to be using quite a bit I imagine. What I am  
>> recommending here are low levels. I think its important to read the  
>> studies before assigning so many dangers to its use. There are  
>> dangers to its abuse but used properly it can have positive effects.
>>  
>> I would also add that MDMA in the hands of an experienced ibogaine  
>> user on a healing journey is a very different thing than MDMA in the  
>> hands of a novice who considers set and setting something to worry  
>> about when having dinner and not as a way to explore oneself. Like  
>> ibogaine we need to put it into proper context.
>>
>> The dose levels are different for everyone but I imagine a low dose  
>> maybe around 100mg but don't quote me on that. I used street MDMA and  
>> while I think it was quite pure it probably was not 100%.
>>  
>> Regarding depression. I think that if one uses MDMA in large doses or  
>> repeatedly and one has a history of abuse the MDMA breaks down the  
>> defenses which have been acquired over a lifetime and subsequently  
>> the mind labors to restore defenses and this can quite possibly lead  
>> to depletion of natural endorphins and depression. In effect the  
>> anger and fear which was blocked away is now closer to the surface  
>> but the person is as yet unable to deal with the anger and fear. The  
>> healing journey can be horrendous.
>>  
>> Basically, you shouldn't abuse drugs unless you are ready for the  
>> consequences. With MDMA it can quite possibly lead to very painful  
>> unmasking if overdone without proper therapeutic support.
>>  
>> Personally I don't like synthetics but sometimes it may be all thats  
>> available and quite frankly God works in mysterious ways. Not every  
>> tool needs to be perfect as long as the job gets done.
>>  
>> Lee
>>
>> Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Lee, Ekki,
>>>                  I would also be interested in what the does are.    
>>> I know nothing about what dose would have what effect.  I was  
>>> thinking about enought to ease defences to allow some emotional  
>>> outpour as part of a theraputic context.    I tried E recreationally  
>>> for a while around 10 years ago, no idea how much was in those pills  
>>> though.
>>>  
>>> Luke
>>>
>>>  
>>> On 9/21/05, ekki <ekkijdfg at gmx.de> wrote:
>>>> Am 21.09.2005 um 11:32 schrieb Lee Albert:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi Luke,
>>>> >
>>>> > I know of one therapist inEuropewho gives a full on dose which
>>>> > knocks you out to the next life but which comes with an amazing  
>>>> sense
>>>> > of ones own truth. However, thats not what I had in mind.
>>>> >
>>>> > I think small doses to break down the armour rather than giving
>>>> > 'major' full on insights is what I had in mind assuming that  
>>>> ibogaine
>>>> > is actually giving you the insight you already need.
>>>> > If that is not the case then maybe a full on MDMA session would be
>>>> > something to consider.
>>>> >
>>>> > As for ongoing MDMA therapy on small doses I don't know of anybody
>>>> > doing this but maybe you can go to the MAPS site. Actually I asked
>>>> > there once about8 years ago and they told me it was illegal and
>>>> > suggested I look at ibogaine which I had never heard of.
>>>> >
>>>> > Which brings me to ........
>>>> >
>>>> > Lee
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> MDMA
>>>> -empties your depots of neurotransmitters like serotonine which
>>>> afterwards can cause depressions as well as lack of concentration  
>>>> and
>>>> it can take intensity out of your life in the long run
>>>> -when you take it in short intervals it doesn´t work any more and
>>>> causes a speedy feeling and confusion
>>>> - it is an amphetamin derivate and has negative side effects on your
>>>> body (drains minerals, dehydration, causes bad skin and teeth) and
>>>> takes away energy afterwards. it´s certainly NOT healthy!
>>>> - gives you a totally artifical bogus feeling of love for everyone  
>>>> and
>>>> everything
>>>> - in the long run it prevents you to develop those feelings without
>>>> drugs
>>>> - can become a bad habit
>>>>
>>>> having said that i made very good experiences with xtc in the mid-
>>>> 90ties techno rave berlin. the first time it really opend me up and
>>>> this feeling stayed with me for weeks no it actually never entirely
>>>> ceased but the drug itself became boring soon.
>>>>
>>>> i wouldn´t recommend it in a "session" setting, it´s better to move
>>>> around and hug each other. don´t take it alone but share the  
>>>> experience
>>>> with others! it is important to be physically active and to drink a
>>>> lot. that way you release the energy and emotions, you need less of  
>>>> the
>>>> drug to get a good effect and you sweat out a lot of the poison so  
>>>> you
>>>>  feel better afterwards and don´t need long to recover. weed is  
>>>> good for
>>>> chillout. i wouldn´t take it when having no weed around. actually i
>>>> wouldn´t take xtc at all anymore.
>>>>
>>>> btw there was this case in switzerland where a woman died after  
>>>> being
>>>> given IBO+MDMA together.
>>>> personally i know people where MDMA caused psychosis, severe
>>>> depression, failure at school and work, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Lee, when you talk of small and big doses, what dose ranges to you  
>>>> mean?
>>>>
>>>> ekki
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /]=----------------------------------------------------------------- 
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>>>>
>>
>>
>> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over  
>> a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:  
>> www.myeboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual  
>> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for  
>> those already initiated: www.myeboga.com/network.html.
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