[Ibogaine] Boosters and Ibogaine Treatment

Krista Vaughan krista.vaughan at gmail.com
Sun Sep 4 07:42:17 EDT 2005


I'm with Sjohnnyg and also lost, I've read this thread and what you're
replying to Mark, isn't there. You've always replied very violently
and strongly to protect the treatments being done in NY and I think
that's commendable and you've obviously had good results from them as
have a lot of others who have posted here, but there isn't anyone
attacking them.

Most of your posts just sound very angry at everything. If this is
where you're at that's natural but your responding with anger at
things nobody has said. Randy I'd say the same to you, almost but not
exactly, I only get the idea you're angry but don't understand at who
or what. If there was some post attacking treatment in NY lately, I've
missed it.

That was a thoughtful and well written post vector, lot of food for
thought, thanks!

KV


On 9/4/05, Vector Vector <vector620022002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> To add a comment to this, I'm not reading what you're replying to in
> these messages Marc. I don't think anyone accused treatment providers
> in the underground of not being clean, Ed made the usual broad sweeping
> statements about whatever he's talking about, but nowhere in them did
> he accuse treatment providers of being junkies.
> 
> Not personally knowing most treatment providers, underground or not,
> the sense I've gotten from reading what they themselves have written to
> this list and that's been hundreds or thousands of messages over the
> years, I would say that most of the underground providers are clean and
> at least trying to be ethical, if anything more ethical then above
> ground providers.
> 
> Most of the above ground providers are running a business and making
> money, whatever their other motivations are, but it's not like anyone
> who is unhappy with their treatment can call the police and try to have
> them arrested or threaten them. While I would not seek treatment from
> many underground providers who have posted here, because they seem to
> be unstable and interested in pushing whatever their personal agenda is
> on clients (this is what you have to do, it worked for me so it's the
> only thing that works). This is the case with some, but not most and
> certainly no one I've ever heard of from New York City. Even for those
> who are guilty of this attitude, it's no different then any other drug
> treatment program I know about, (nothing except the 12 steps work,
> nothing except whatever I myself am doing works).
> 
> On top of all that, the 'above ground' providers who have posted here
> and had long arguments back and forth with each other, don't act any
> more stable then the sickest junkie they are supposedly treating. Marc
> Emery vs. everybody comes to mind. Ibogaine Therapy House didn't exist
> until well into the third or fourth year of this list and when he
> opened it what he did was send people to Sara Glatt, have them learn
> from her, take her knowledge and then use it for himself without
> compensating Sara.
> 
> This isn't to bash Marc, I give him support and credit whenever I can,
> I think he's done a huge amount of good, but nothing is ever clear cut
> either. Last year when he was arrested, correct me if I am mistaken,
> but the Drug war and High Times lists were filled with other activists
> and activist organizations bashing Marc for selling them out and
> pleading out, instead of fighting in court. His last stand which is
> happening right now is different because it's impossible for him to
> plead out, he can't very well say he's not guilty, because everything
> he is being accused of are things he has spent 10+ years openly talking
> about every time there's a camera in his face. Marc Emery sells pot
> seeds and uses the profits to finance all his other ideas? No, say it
> ain't so!
> 
> Let me be very clear and say that what's happening with the DEA trying
> to prosecute Marc is disgusting and wrong.
> 
> Most of the other providers mostly write to hear themselves talk,
> filling up pages that don't say too much of anything except glossing
> over their lack of any experience, either personal or formal (they have
> never been drug addicts and they have no medical training), which is
> more of a ego trip or trying to sell what they do to more clients, to
> use Marc as a example one more time, not because he's wrong but because
> he was honest enough to be strait forward about it, 'why would I fly to
> another country and pay someone so much money to do nothing special for
> me? I can order the ibogaine from the same sources the providers get it
> from, pay much less, control my own doses and take control of my own
> situation' Marc's answer was, go for it, you are right. To again give
> credit where it's do, Emery never made any money from ibogaine, he gave
> it away along with treatments and housing.
> 
> What is it all about, finding common ground and better ways to treat
> people? Maybe, but it looks more like the same things everything is
> always about, ego tripping and money. If all the people involved with
> ibogaine have never managed to get along and cooperate in over 30 years
> of this, I have no doubts that it won't be happening now, if anything
> the 'treatment providers' seem to be getting less experienced, more
> unbalanced.
> 
> I'm not a drug addict, the person I have found here who speaks the
> least bullshit and I don't know how to say it but has a real and honest
> feel, is Sara Glatt.
> 
> .:vector:.
> 
> --- mcorcoran <mcorcoran27 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > I rarely post on this list anymore unless its to rant about my own
> > bullshit once in a blue but I saw this post and had to respond. I'm
> > not sure what you mean about successful or semi-successful treatments
> > but I assure you that anyone who isn't clean is not doing treatments
> > in NY or anywhere else in the states for that matter. Secondly, I had
> > a far better experience in NY than I did in Mexico with a doctor
> > because I was treated by addicts who have real insight into
> > addiction. Nothing you can read in a book can prepare you for dealing
> > with someone going though this process and if you haven't been to
> > that place yourself how on earth are you going to understand???
> > Also the professional help to compliment the ibogaine experience is
> > available here as well. You just have to be willing to put in the
> > footwork to make it happen. Took me a while and a whole lot of
> > possibly unnecessary craziness but it is helping. Ibogaine is only a
> > tool the rest of the work you have to do on your own but its a hell
> > of a tool and I wouldn't have wanted to go though my experience with
> > anyone else but who treated me.
> > Thanks for letting me share. ;o)
> >
> > "Sjonnygee ." <sjonnygee at msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sure there are people who have had successful or semi-successful
> > treatments who go on to be 'providers' - in that they give Ibogaine
> > to someone who needs/wants it and do so without any real insight into
> > the addicts (because I'm referring to addiction treatment) psyche or
> > stability.
> >
> > >especially if the provider has no more knowledge about
> > >addiction than
> > >the apploication of a POTENTIAL addiction interruptor  - Ed.
> >
> > >What kind of broad sweeping statement is that? - Randy.
> >
> > It's in no way a broad sweeping statement when read and understood in
> > the context of the rest of his posts - not that I agree with Eds'
> > opinions altogether, but the problem (the problem being completely
> > unqualified and risky treatments of opiate addiction using Ibogaine
> > as a one off cure) is as we all too well know a symptom of the lack
> > of acknowledgement within pharmaceutical companies, of Ibogaines
> > potential as an awesome tool of detoxification.
> >
> > There are 'providers' though who will hear addicts tell them they
> > have aftercare, healthy hearts and livers without being concerned
> > about the facts . People can get awesome results maybe through the
> > drug alone but I believe Ibogaine is something to be revered and used
> > with great care , before and after .I'm breaking absolutely no new
> > ground here but I just don't see the point of getting angry at
> > someone who wants to use something in a professional and safe manner
> > with pre-tested (in my opinion - sound) protocol.
> > Sjonny.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > From: BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com
> > Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters
> > Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 05:23:59 EDT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > especially if the provider has no more knowledge about
> > >addiction than
> > >the apploication of a POTENTIAL addiction interruptor
> >
> > What kind of broad sweeping statement is that? How many of these
> > providers do you actually know? I hope your not talking about my
> > friends here, because if you are, you are very mistaken.  This is
> > starting to look like a hard on contest. Who's the smartest and who
> > is more capable of providing the best treatment. Come on over here to
> > the states and try to do some treatments, and then think about being
> > truly honest on the internet. Most of these guys that I know never
> > say a word here. They read it, and they hear about it, but they are
> > so in control of their emotions and worried enough about their own
> > ass that they just learn and keep their mouth shut. Now me, I'm a
> > dumb ass and I can't keep from spewing my mouth, and saying just what
> > I think. I think I know all of the underground providers that came
> > out of the Ibogaine Project conducted In NYC, and I know the first
> > thing they asked me was what kind of aftercare I had in place, and
> > came up with ideas about what to do to stay clean that I
> >  didn't think of, but then again, I'm a dumb ass. Maybe I'm mistaken
> > and you are not talking about my friends, and if that is so, then I
> > appoligize. Data is being compiled as we speak, and I assure you that
> > nobody is ignoring the very latest information about the application,
> > or the follow up and aftercare.        Randy
> >
> >
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