myeboga at yahoo.co.uk
Fri Sep 2 09:04:28 EDT 2005
I had a look at that site on the Humaniversity. Looks interesting. Might try it myself oneday. Is it expensive?
I have been following the discussion on boosters as that is something I find of interest and I guess what springs to mind is this:
1. Ibogaine's anti-dependency properties.
In my own experience I have encountered a great deal of pain with ibogaine as I have uncovered very painful memories of my past life. This has also come with a lot of self hate and anger. And when the pain is rising one can hit out unjustly or over-respond to others but that is how pain can take hold of the normal thinking processes in my experience and is part of the journey for good or bad.
There is a period of time where one is conscious of many bad things after the ibogaine experience and emotional release & integration is very much a good thing and the help of an open minded non-judgemental therapist as emotional guide can be a good thing. Of course a level headed partner can be equally as good. Ibogaine uncovers. I suppose it would not uncover unless you were up for it. Its a personal journey to mental/emotional clarity based on a deep seated commitment to doing the right thing imo.
Sometimes for me the feelings have been unbearable and I have reached out to the ibogaine in an almost addictive way. I am not proud of that but its true. There is a sense of wanting relief. Yet, when I have tried to up the dose from a low dose during a session in response to the pain (almost addictively) to find relief I end up thowing up and realising that I am actually trying to abuse the ibogaine and it doesn't work. The higher dose does not equal greater pain relief. So I back off and learn and also realise that no matter how much pain I am in there is an appropriate therapeutic dose for dealing with pain etc using ibogaine, i.e. unlike an opiate its not a question of the more you take the better you feel. "That is not to say that pain=taking ibogaine." With ongoing use one learns this truth as ibogaine is a spiritual experience and it is the spirit that is also part of the healing. By adopting a cooperative attitude with the spirit(s) of eboga, the energy of a mini-session can
provide much needed relief and healing for those in recovery.
Being labelled a drug is not the same as being labelled bad. Thats a drug war mentality. Eboga is foremostly a spirit plant and a spiritual healers tool.
Boosters/Mini-sessions have a place in the healing program imo but do not lend themselves to abuse as ibogaine is much more than a drug, eg. the eboga spirit can simply connect you to a deeper as yet uncovered trauma leading to immediate vomiting of the ibogaine - opiates don't do this. Eboga has its own means of regulating use. Ongoing use is a recognition of its role/use as a tool in ones healing journey.
Eboga is a doorway to a realm wherein one encounters healing spirits. Low doses are perfect for personal inner work especially where abuse has been uncovered and a person needs to look closer at the area or simply to release a great deal of pain - "of course" contact work can work equally well at times. Equally, emotional support outside such sessions plays a very healing role. Intention and a certain amount of humility along with spiritual awareness and cooperation helps. Yet, for some the lack of emotional support may be exactly what they need in that moment to access their deepest issues and can be the reason why those issues get accessed whereas with lots of support they might not!
2. Is it possible to avoid life using ibogaine?
Ibogaine is far more intelligent than anyone on this list. We can play with it and for a while exploit its ability to reduce our dependence but it is the spirit of eboga thats actually calling the shots imo and its agenda is hardly one where someone should avoid life. Ongoing use leads to ego annihilation in one form or other. Does it not?
The lesson of the pain produced via ibogaine/eboga is that life is full of pain and we are all part of its cause. When we decide that we cannot bear the pain any longer we begin to change our behaviour and our attitudes to break its cycle and the manner in which we perpetuate what has been done to us. We begin to find a place of peace within a world of suffering. Exploring how one feels in a mini-session throws us back onto ourselves where we have to truely question in what way we are also supporting this pain in our lives. This is part of the eboga experience and part of its ajenda. Eboga has an ajenda and taking it on an ongoing basis and expecting to benefit solely from its anti-addictive properties is perhaps being a little nieve.
One can take eboga willy nilly for a time and find a comfortable balance possibly vis a vis ones dependence. But who is to say that ones world will not suddenly become turned upside down by some tragedy or eboga uncovering or whatever and suddenly one is thrown back onto ibogaine to begin to learn its deeper lessons because there are no other options to resolve ones crises/pain? Is that a bad thing or is it simply the way in which eboga works?
Eboga is first and foremostly a teaching plant. I guess a lot depends on your point of view. If one does not buy into the idea of spiritual helpers, healing plants, synchronisity and events happening to influence your life journey, then maybe what I have wrote here will not make much sense.
Wishing everyone well,
Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: edward conn [mailto:wardconn at hotmail.com]
> Sent: 01 September 2005 19:00
> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters
> Thanks Peet,
> its good to see that someone is listening and using reason.
> Partly I started
> off the way I did to see partly if there was anyone out there, to see
> reaction - you can tell alot about people by their first reactions - whos
> defending what etc. and thirdly I don't like the one sided debate that is
> put about by those with personal interrests in this area. So i dropped a
> minor bomb to smoke them out.
> It turns out that i work wit ibogaine but i never have been a part of the
> scene, its anathema to me and part of the problem as well present
> state of
> affairs part of the solution. Ibogaine is a tool, no more no less
> and like
> tools it equally dependent on the abilitry of the artisan or blaggard or
> proffesional as to how it works. How do I know this , well becaused I've
> been using it for five pluis years, but my interrest is in people
> first and
> their circumstances/makeup/conditions - so the lacking in its
> scope i feel
> is a lacking or requiring of knowledge in the human field as
> opposed to its
> chemical constiuents.
> Its closer to a quantitative field as opposed to qualitative in
> my view and
> their is a distinct lack of awareness inrelation to the diversity
> of human
> needs and their genuine requirement to be addressed. So this is were my
> focus has been. The addictive tendency for compulsion can be as easily
> applied to ibogaine as any other drug, its ahuman borne condition
Ed, Do you know of any actual cases that might realistically be described as
ibogaine addiction? I've never heard of any.
Luke, Good to hear from you again. I'd still recommend Humaniversity therapy
over breathwork, personally. If you get some cash together check out a two
week Tourist Program www.humaniversity.nl. I know a lot of breathworkers,
whether rebirthing, holotropic, vivation or whatever, but Humaniversity is
far more encompassing and a lot more fun.
And, Ed, from one of your posts yesterday - I agree that a lot of people
into the Green movement are just into it to hide from themselves,
basically - to project their own inner conflicts out. I also agree that
iboga is best used interspersed with a lot of regular day-to-day living. I
don't quite see how you can tie these statements together like you did
though. Care to explain more?
> and that
> partly is the concern, but it is really in the direction of meeting the
> wider needs of the individual at a specific level. I feel this should be
> incorporated into treatment and that by doing so in fact relates more
> directly to traditional usage than is presently being put out. There is a
> lot of lip service to this but very little delivery. The tabloid style
> reporting on the websites repeats the same general information and it is
> that general. But it also specifies back up work. This mirrors the
> traditional birth into adult community and the elder/guide that
> is a part of
> this, but were is it being done. What people are told is that the
> does it itself, it'll be ok. But i'm sorry to say this is not always true
> and were are the back up precautions for those cases?
> What happens to the people who required the back up, do they feel
> even more
> dejected because the new cure di'nt work for them and were do
> they go from
> there, especially if the provider has no more knowledge about
> addiction than
> the apploication of a POTENTIAL addiction interruptor.
> So preparation is essential and so is honesty, humbleness and
> integration of
> the provider(if available) to the wider system/circumstances of
> the person
> seeking treatment. Then things can be addressed realistically and with
> relative enduring security . Drug users are vulnerable, people are
> vulnerable. Despite the belief that these providers are caring sensitive
> souls on closer examination one sees a application of a powerful
> and cultural tool in a diluted down and unbalanced hopeful way
> with out any
> consideration for the wind. "In the best of cases Ibogaine
> worked" so goes
> Leo Zeffs analysis quote one liner...what about in the rest of
> caseses...atleast those people had hopefully a conscientious
> person/professional working with them. There are bad Drs and Bad
> There are good also. Providers have to take responsibility. If they don't
> one needs to ask what are their reasons for working in this manner.
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.myeboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
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