luke.christoffersen at gmail.com
Thu Sep 1 17:13:21 EDT 2005
The humaniversity sounds interesting all right. Is it expensive? Not sure
if I'd be up for it at the moment but perhaps in the future. I finished my
job a few months ago but that was ok because I had grown to hate it.
On 9/1/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: edward conn [mailto:wardconn at hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 01 September 2005 19:00
> > To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Boosters
> > Thanks Peet,
> > its good to see that someone is listening and using reason.
> > Partly I started
> > off the way I did to see partly if there was anyone out there, to see
> > reaction - you can tell alot about people by their first reactions -
> > defending what etc. and thirdly I don't like the one sided debate that
> > put about by those with personal interrests in this area. So i dropped a
> > minor bomb to smoke them out.
> > It turns out that i work wit ibogaine but i never have been a part of
> > scene, its anathema to me and part of the problem as well present
> > state of
> > affairs part of the solution. Ibogaine is a tool, no more no less
> > and like
> > tools it equally dependent on the abilitry of the artisan or blaggard or
> > proffesional as to how it works. How do I know this , well becaused I've
> > been using it for five pluis years, but my interrest is in people
> > first and
> > their circumstances/makeup/conditions - so the lacking in its
> > scope i feel
> > is a lacking or requiring of knowledge in the human field as
> > opposed to its
> > chemical constiuents.
> > Its closer to a quantitative field as opposed to qualitative in
> > my view and
> > their is a distinct lack of awareness inrelation to the diversity
> > of human
> > needs and their genuine requirement to be addressed. So this is were my
> > focus has been. The addictive tendency for compulsion can be as easily
> > applied to ibogaine as any other drug, its ahuman borne condition
> Ed, Do you know of any actual cases that might realistically be described
> ibogaine addiction? I've never heard of any.
> Luke, Good to hear from you again. I'd still recommend Humaniversity
> over breathwork, personally. If you get some cash together check out a two
> week Tourist Program www.humaniversity.nl <http://www.humaniversity.nl>. I
> know a lot of breathworkers,
> whether rebirthing, holotropic, vivation or whatever, but Humaniversity is
> far more encompassing and a lot more fun.
> And, Ed, from one of your posts yesterday - I agree that a lot of people
> into the Green movement are just into it to hide from themselves,
> basically - to project their own inner conflicts out. I also agree that
> iboga is best used interspersed with a lot of regular day-to-day living. I
> don't quite see how you can tie these statements together like you did
> though. Care to explain more?
> > and that
> > partly is the concern, but it is really in the direction of meeting the
> > wider needs of the individual at a specific level. I feel this should be
> > incorporated into treatment and that by doing so in fact relates more
> > directly to traditional usage than is presently being put out. There is
> > lot of lip service to this but very little delivery. The tabloid style
> > reporting on the websites repeats the same general information and it is
> > that general. But it also specifies back up work. This mirrors the
> > traditional birth into adult community and the elder/guide that
> > is a part of
> > this, but were is it being done. What people are told is that the
> > ibogaine
> > does it itself, it'll be ok. But i'm sorry to say this is not always
> > and were are the back up precautions for those cases?
> > What happens to the people who required the back up, do they feel
> > even more
> > dejected because the new cure di'nt work for them and were do
> > they go from
> > there, especially if the provider has no more knowledge about
> > addiction than
> > the apploication of a POTENTIAL addiction interruptor.
> > So preparation is essential and so is honesty, humbleness and
> > integration of
> > the provider(if available) to the wider system/circumstances of
> > the person
> > seeking treatment. Then things can be addressed realistically and with
> > relative enduring security . Drug users are vulnerable, people are
> > vulnerable. Despite the belief that these providers are caring sensitive
> > souls on closer examination one sees a application of a powerful
> > historical
> > and cultural tool in a diluted down and unbalanced hopeful way
> > with out any
> > consideration for the wind. "In the best of cases Ibogaine
> > worked" so goes
> > Leo Zeffs analysis quote one liner...what about in the rest of
> > caseses...atleast those people had hopefully a conscientious
> > person/professional working with them. There are bad Drs and Bad
> > therapists.
> > There are good also. Providers have to take responsibility. If they
> > one needs to ask what are their reasons for working in this manner.
> > Ed
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html[%]
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