[Ibogaine] Homeopathic Healing

Luke Christoffersen luke.christoffersen at gmail.com
Tue Oct 4 14:21:33 EDT 2005

Hi Nick,
 I don't know if he'll ever go into therapy and if he was to it would
probably be the regular psychiatrists that he'd be refered to by his GP.
There doesn't seem to be alot available to people that would work with
emotional release. The pills seem to help alright, he normally fairly easy
going now but he can't really have a normal job because the pills keep him
in bed. His teatment is basically out of his hands from what I see. He just
has to take what's given to him has to put his faith in the doctors.
  What do you mean by psychosis? Hearing voices and delusions and the like?
I'm not sure where psychosis begins, but I see this guy as acting out a
violent rage towards some people. Always getting into fights for some reason
or loosing it over something someone would say.

 On 10/4/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Luke,
>  Well, I also don't know the guy, but I've had a lot of experience working
> therapeutically with anger. No, just screaming at people in the street or
> wherever isn't so useful, I agree. But in a supported group room context I
> think it would help a lot. Yes, basically, I'm sure he has trouble
> repressing feelings and when his energy is up it can just easily go into
> aggression. I have the same thing. About people knowing about these things,
> again you're right. Most people, incl most doctors do not understand anger.
> They don't know what it is and so can only take the option of trying to
> suppress it with chemicals. That's a useful short term measure and I'm sure
> it keeps him out of trouble and out of prison. Longer term you need to work
> with it therapeutically or, chances are, constant suppression will just lead
> to the energy going back into the body and cancer or similar developing. If
> he's not diagnosed psychotic, or doesn't manifest obvious symptoms of
> psychosis without drugs, then he could work in a group therapy context, I'd
> say. If there's more a psychotic pattern emerging in his behaviour then
> one-to-one work is still possible. The thing is to start. And that's up to
> him.
>  Nick
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Luke Christoffersen [mailto:luke.christoffersen at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 04 October 2005 15:04
> *To:* ibogaine at mindvox.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Ibogaine] Homeopathic Healing
>   Hi Nick,
>  I don't think it's as simple as just screaming with some people. In this
> case the guy became very agressive and sometimes violent, constantly getting
> into fights. He was always quite hyper before acid and I guess he must have
> had a thin defence system with alot pushing up.
>   Most people myself included don't know really know of the nature of
> these type of emotions unless their eductated on it. By chance I found a
> book on primal therapy and started to read this kind of stuff but without
> that I would still not really have any idea. Basically the doctor gives him
> pills and if he loses his temper they give him more. He doesn't go to any
> sort of therapy and with no understanding or anywhere to go to deal with
> this pills are the only solution or he would have ended up in jail or in
> some trouble.
>  Luke
>   Hi Luke,
> >  This guy with the anger from taking acid has to scream a lot, in a safe
> > therapeutic setting. It's just the body trying to re-open itself, having
> > closed as a reaction to some form of invasion when he was a kid. In the
> > group room you see this over and over again. It's a problem with
> > psychedelics that they can open you up faster than you can integrate the
> > experience. This is less with iboga and ayahuasca which seem to have more
> > subtlety to them.
> >  Nick
> >
> >  On 10/3/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk > wrote:
> > >
> > >   -----Original Message-----
> > > *From:* Lee Albert [mailto: myeboga at yahoo.co.uk]
> > > *Sent:* 03 October 2005 18:41
> > > *To:* Ibogaine List
> > > *Subject:* [Ibogaine] Homeopathic Healing
> > >
> > >  *Grof's View on Healing*
> > >
> > >  From:
> > > http://www.healthy.net/scr/interview.asp?PageType=Interview&ID=290
> > >
> > > The attitude of Western psychiatry that sees mental health as simply
> > > the absence of symptoms certainly has to be radically revised. In the new
> > > understanding, emotional and psychosomatic symptoms are seen as expressions
> > > of the healing process of the organism, not as manifestations of disease.
> > > [Obviously this applies only to "functional" or psychologically determined
> > > disorders and not to clearly organic conditions, such as tumors, infections,
> > > or hardening of the arteries of the brain. Nor would it apply in certain
> > > states which are clearly manifestations of mental disease, such as severe
> > > paranoid conditions.] This new understanding can be described as
> > > "homeopathic". In the alternative system of medicine known as homeopathy,
> > > the symptoms are then seen as expressions of healing, not the disease.
> > > Therapy in homeopathy consists of a temporary intensification of the
> > > symptoms to achieve wholeness. This approach results in profound healing and
> > > positive personality transformation rather than the impoverishment of
> > > vitality and functioning that accompanies pharmacological suppression of
> > > symptoms. The emphasis on constructive working with symptoms instead of
> > > their routine suppression is the first major difference between the
> > > strategies based on modern consciousness research and those used in
> > > mainstream psychiatry.
> > >
> > >  Lee – There are those who will consider that eboga has made life
> > > worse for them. This I would see as a stage in the healing process. Anyone
> > > seriously thinking of healing via eboga needs to be switched on to the high
> > > cost involved or perhaps stay away altogether. In any case i don't imagine
> > > the eboga experience leaving a person in a state of distress greater than
> > > before unless that state were beneficial at the deepest and most important
> > > level in the long run for that person, i.e., at a soul level the
> > > person has agreed to it and welcomes it.
> > >
> > >   Hi Lee,
> > >  Basically, I agree with what you say but I find the argument a bit
> > > convoluted and Stan Grof's quote also not so good. Yes, I think it is a
> > > "soul choice" to take ibogaine. That's certainly been how I feel about it
> > > when I look back at the experience. And yes, one could say it was someone's
> > > "soul choice" to die, or have an acutely bad experience, but (i) this has no
> > > legal validity in court, and (ii) personally, I think people do have a right
> > > to know about the risks that they face simply as a person, not as some
> > > "immortal soul" or something.
> > >  As to Stan's quote, I find it pretty chaotic. The bit in []'s implies
> > > that one can determine ultimately the "source" of a complaint, whether it be
> > > pathalogical or psychological. I very much doubt this is possible and to try
> > > and claim that it is, anyway, is just as dualistic an interpretation of
> > > things as the traditional medicine he claims needs revising. Secondly, if
> > > homeopathy sees symptoms as simply an expression of healing, what, then,
> > > actually is the complaint? None presumably. Thus the whole paradigm of
> > > problem and treatment can be scrapped and all medicine people, be they
> > > doctors or healers, be forgotten. Homeopathy consists in treating like with
> > > like, as I recall, and yes sometimes things get worse before they get
> > > better. But healing itself is a completely not understood thing - it's a
> > > reversal of thermodynamic laws and scientists and healers alike don't
> > > understand it. Who can really state laws about healing? As to suppression,
> > > sometimes it's the best thing to do. When you can't deal with a problem
> > > effectively in the moment, suppression is a pretty good option. Also, while
> > > I'm at it, he doesn't state how he'd replace "Western psychiatry's" way of
> > > defining mental health. Absence of symptoms is pretty good, if a little dry.
> > > What he writes about moving towards working with symptomology I totally
> > > agree with personally though.
> > >  I do find it a bit of a worrying trend in new-agers like Stan (rather
> > > an old new-ager) that they proceed to merrily deconstruct established
> > > thought, which is cool, but then recreate it all again just to push their
> > > own favoured treatment methodologies. They wanna have it both ways. It's a
> > > little bit a con really, not that people haven't enjoyed better lives
> > > through Stan's work, which, like Leonard Orr's, is really just rehashed
> > > pranayama.
> > >  Nick
> > >
> > >
> >
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