[Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.

Morning Wood morning_wood263 at yahoo.com
Sun Mar 27 18:47:28 EST 2005

--- kiersten johnson <kiers10 at mac.com> wrote:
> so, I know this is nothing compared to what many of
> you have gone  
> through with H, etc, , but I am trying to simply
> stop taking Effexor 

  Hi Kiersten,

With the exception of Alcohol, Effexor & Friends are
at the top of my list as some of the most difficult to
  When I talk to some people about kicking, (alcohol
and speed mostly), the main obsticle I run into is not
only being prescribed just one anti-dep, but 4 or 5
different ones at the same time.  

  I too would very much like info or links to info on
different ways to successfully kick effexor and
friends, ibogaine included, in what doses I wonder...

   If low doses are effective for helping take edge
off a bit, is it good to do this before kicking the
main objective??  
  I would love to hear what the answers will be. 


Hey does Anyone have any experience with this?

Scientologists Will 'Purify' Drug Addicts - For UKP
by Jamie Doward, (27 Mar 2005)

Observer United Kingdom
It boasts an 80 per cent success rate, the rock star
Beck is a fan, and schools are inviting the Narconon
centre into the classroom.  So why are some people
worried? Jamie Doward reports

You have a crack cocaine habit that costs you UKP1,500
a day, forcing you into prostitution.  Someone tells
you about a course that could you get off the drug,
without putting you on substitute medication, but it
costs UKP15,000.  What would you do - especially if
you found out the course was linked to the Church of
Scientology, the controversial creed that boasts John
Travolta and Tom Cruise as followers?

For Danielle Medford, 22, there was no debate. 
Ravaged by crack, her body was close to shutdown. 
Death was only weeks away.  Her family read about
Narconon on the internet and raised the cash to enrol
her as one of the drug rehabilitation programme's
first British clients. 

Danielle weighed just over seven stone when, she
walked through the doors of the 1920s mansion in a
quiet street in the Sussex town of St Leon ards on
Sea.  Seven weeks later, she weighs 10 stone, she is
off crack and about to go to Barbados on holiday. 
When she returns, Danielle wants to work with
schoolchildren to warn them of the dangers of drugs. 

'The course teaches you that you can be anything you
want to be,' Danielle says with a wide smile.  'I hit
the jackpot with Narconon.  I have a brand-new life. 
I have a little girl and I neglected her, but not any

It was only later, as she was finishing her course,
that Danielle became aware of Narconon's controversial
rep utation.  Its programme, which claims to have
helped 'purify' 300,000 people around the world, has
been attacked by mainstream drug experts alarmed at
the way Narconon dispenses massive amounts of vitamins
to its clients above recommended daily limits.  They
point out that Narconon's claims that it has a success
rate of 80 per cent, are almost impossible to verify
independently, and express concern that the programme
is a recruiting ground for Scientology. 

But it is clear that many people fervently believe in
the programme - which they can quit at any time - and,
like Danielle, have become evangelists for it.  Cheers
star Kirstie Alley is now a spokeswoman for the
organisation, which she credits with helping her ditch
her coke habit.  American cult musician Beck played a
Narconon fundraiser in Los Angeles last year.  He told
an interviewer last week: 'The drug-rehabilitation
programmes have the highest success rate of any in the

When the St Leonards' centre held an official opening
three weeks ago, the former manager of the Rolling
Stones, Andrew 'Loog' Oldham, a man who did more to
boost the coffers of Colombia's drug barons than
practically anyone else in the world with his
unfettered cocaine consumption, flew in to praise
Narconon and to thank it for saving his life. 

'I had a rollercoaster of a ride with the Rolling
Stones for five years and then spent 30 years getting
over it,' he said.  'The programme was an amazing
experience for me personally and also because of the
people I met on it.  It was a glorious seven weeks as
the acid came out first, followed by the coke,
morphine derivatives, inoculation poisions as well as_
all of the drugs of life.'

Impressed by such testimony, schools have started
inviting Narconon, a registered charity in the UK,
into their classrooms to warn pupils about drugs. 
Students are given pamphlets with information about
the programme and a number to ring if they are worried
that someone is using drugs. 

Local government is also hoping to pay for treatment
programmes at the 60-bed clinic.  When The Observer
became the first newspaper to be given access to the
clinic last week, two social services workers were
being given a tour of the building, once an asylum
detention centre. 

Already the centre's claims are having an impact on
other drug rehabilitation centres.  Several clients
interviewed by The Observer said they had opted for
Narconon over The Priory or Clouds - two of Britain's
most famous rehab centres, whose claims at
successfully treating addictions are far more modest
than the new entrant. 

Perhaps Narconon's claims explain why it charges so
much.  The average course lasts three months and costs
UKP15,000.  But its clients believe it is a small
price to pay. 

Ryan Jarvis, 27, developed such a cocaine and alcohol
habit that he could not hold down his carpentry job. 
As his life collapsed around him, Ryan left his
partner and their child and fled to Marbella.  He blew
UKP18,000 on a seven-month orgy of drink and drugs
before his father lent him the cash for the Narconon

Ryan, whose worn face belies his age, says: 'UKP15,000
is not a lot of money.  Since I finished the course
eight weeks ago I haven't got any problems.  I'm back
with my family and I have my life back.'

He admits he found parts of the course 'weird'. 
'There was some stuff that wasn't my cup of tea, but a
lot of it really helped me.  You get out of the course
what you put in.'

To the outsider, the entire programme must seem weird.
 Founded in 1966 by William Benitez, an inmate of
Arizona State Prison, Narconon draws heavily on the
teachings of L.  Ron Hubbard, a science fiction writer
and the founder of Scientology. 

Critics argue Narconon is merely a front for
Scientology.  Hubbard's teachings and photos adorn the
centre's walls and the language the staff use is
redolent of Scientologists.  Paul Dolan, the clinic's
manager, admits he is a Scientologist and confirms
that the centre could not have opened if it had not
been for the generosity of members of the church. 
However, he denied suggestions that the clinic's
profits will be ploughed into Scientology and insisted
they will be invested in rolling the programme out
nationwide, starting with London, Manchester and
Glasgow centres. 

Nevertheless, the overlap between the church and the
drug rehabilitation programme alarms Scientology's
critics.  They point out that each Narconon client
must complete eight books based on Hubbard's teachings
during their course, which is in three parts -
withdrawal, detoxification and education - and draws
on the Scientology founder's beliefs about mental and
physical health. 

During the withdrawal phase, which typically lasts
five to eight days, a client is put on a course of
vitamins, including huge doses of Niacin and B3, and
given 'assists' by staff - Scientology techniques
similar to massages which apparently soothe mental and
physical pain.  'Pretty much every other drug
rehabilitation course prescribes drugs.  We don't,'
says Dolan, a former engineer in the gas industry. 

Critics say there is no scientific basis for
Narconon's programme and are alarmed at the amounts of
vitamins it prescribes.  Dolan dismisses the worries. 
'You could give the people in here up to 1,000 times
the recommended daily dose and it still wouldn't be a
health threat, because the drugs they have been on
strip the vitamins out of the body.'

Claire Smith ( not her real name ), who says she was
admitted to the centre five weeks ago addicted to
morphine, heroin and crack, claims to be living proof
that addicts don't need medication to help with their
withdrawal.  'I was so ill my body couldn't take the
vitamins at first,' she said.  'I'd been on methadone
before, but that didn't work, my whole body just
ached.  But when I came out of the sauna I felt

The sauna holds almost mystical properties to those
who have completed the Narconon course.  Clients spend
about five hours a day 'sweating out their toxins' for
up to three weeks.  Jimmy Mulligan, 48, said he had
been an alcoholic for three decades.  'But when you
come out of the sauna for the last time you are free
of everything.' Now sober, Jimmy's only regret is that
his time on the course is ending.  'I'm not just
saying that, I really mean it.'

Upon arrival at a Narconon programme, all clients are
issued with a Hubbard pamphlet, The Way to Happiness,
A Common Sense Guide to Better Living .  'It is in
your power to point the way to a less dangerous and
happier life,' is the opening maxim.  'Be temperate'
is another.  'Sex is a big step on the way to
happiness and joy.  There is nothing wrong with it, if
it is followed with faithfulness and decency,' another

The perfunctory writings are typical of Narconon
manuals.  Yet Narconon believes that Hubbard's words
hold the key to whether their clients stay off drugs
or drink when they finish the course.  Clients are
encouraged to read dictionaries, not only to make sure
they grasp every word of the teachings, but also to
give them a feeling of empowerment.  'I learnt 400
words on my course, words like cognition,' Danielle
says with pride.  'I've learnt more here than I learnt
in school.'

Armed with their new education, which also involves
working through problems with clay models and talking
to an ethics counsellor to help develop a moral code,
a Narconon client is deemed ready to face the world
without risk of falling back into addiction. 

Many, however, do not seem to want to go very far.  Of
the 15 people who have completed the Narconon course
since the St Leonards' clinic opened, five are now
working for the company.  Jimmy intends to sign up as
an employee when he finishes the programme. 

Lucy Graham, 22, who says she was on the verge of
suicide because of binge drinking and bulimia, went
home to Swindon after the course.  'But I really
wanted to come back.  It's made such a difference to
my life.  I'm now training to be a public relations
manager for Narconon.'

Narconon, it seems, may set its clients free, but they
don't want to be free of Narconon.  As Hubbard writes:
'The way to happiness is a high-speed road to those
who know where the edges are.'

To its believers, Narconon knows exactly where those
edges are. 

How to beat an addiction

The 12 steps

Chiefly used by recovering alcoholics, 12 Steps
encourages addicts to admit they are powerless without
alcohol and that their lives have become unmanageable.
 Through a mixture of prayer and meditation, addicts
improve their contact with God to gain the strength to
break free of their addiction. 

The Thamkrabok monastery

The Thailand drug rehabilitation centre offers the
toughest recovery regime in the world.  The rock star
Pete Doherty visited the monastery in an attempt to
rid himself of his crack cocaine habit, but didn't
last the course.  Addicts are put through a series of
bamboo floggings, prayers and manual labour which is
designed to cleanse them physically and mentally. 

The Priory

The UK's most famous rehab centre offers a range of
therapies for addicts, most of whom will have to pay
for its services.  A personalised addiction treatment
programme will cost around UKP25,000. 


The use of auricular ( ear ) acupuncture in treating
acute drug withdrawal began in Hong Kong in 1972.  Its
practical application in alcohol and drug treatment
evolved at New York City's Lincoln Hospital during the
Seventies and is now used by 2,000 clinics worldwide. 
Powered by MAPMAP posted-by: Derek

Pubdate: Sun, 27 Mar 2005
Source: Observer, The (UK)
Copyright: 2005 The Observer
Contact: letters at observer.co.uk
Website: http://www.observer.co.uk/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/315
Author: Jamie Doward
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

> and I every time I get down to two days without, I
> become dizzy, the  
> white noise in my head gets turned up to eleven, and
> I can't stay  
> awake. I tried to go off a couple of weeks ago and
> this happened, so  
> the doc gave me a low dose of prozac that I have
> been on now for a  
> week, and her plan was that I could then quit the
> Effexor cold. Now the  
> zaps are milder, but I can do nothing but sleep and
> listen to white  
> noise and the world looks very black and I feel a
> little crazy.
> I had a dream last week that since I was going to
> Florida that I should  
> go to the Caribbean to do an iboga ceremony. Is it
> possible that iboga  
> can help me with this? What do you think?
> thanks,
> kiersten
> On Mar 23, 2005, at 7:12 PM, Jasen Chamoun wrote:
> >  Hey BB,
> >
> >  How you doing matey. My name is Jasen, I had been
> (had,...WOW)  
> > addicted to Methadone and heroin for 23 years.
> Since the
> >  age of 15 (first serious habit). I live in
> Australia. I spoke to many  
> > understanding people on the list for a few months
> before going to
> >  Amsterdam Holland to have the treatment with
> Sara. I was on 60mg at  
> > the time and also double and triple dosed a few
> days
> >  leading up to getting to Sara's.
> >
> > Sara gave me the "extract" Iboga. I was at Sara's
> for 27 days. The  
> > "Iboga'" helped me in many ways, one of which was
> to relieve
> > me of at least 85% of the withdrawals.
> >
> > The good thing about Iboga' is that it seems to
> help with some of the  
> > underlying reasons as to the addiction in the
> first place, it did for
> > me anyway. It also seems to give you more
> understanding and it filled  
> > me with love,..love in very generous amounts. It
> really was a
> > wonderfull medicine for me.
> >
> > I am now going into my fourth month,...free of all
> addiction and I am  
> > loving it. The residual withdrawals for me stuck
> with me for
> > quite a while,....but you know what,..it is not
> like "hanging out" it  
> > is like you know you are a little unwell,..like
> you have the flu, and
> > you will get better. It gives you strength.
> >
> > One very important thing is "aftercare". Organise
> yourself in a way  
> > where you will not be around your old "using"
> mates, and your
> > enviroment is different when you get home. Iboga
> resets your life and  
> > gives you the opportunity to take a different path
> if you so
> > choose. It did for me.
> >
> > If you have any questions, I am here for you, as
> are many others. Be  
> > well BB.
> >
> > I am strong.
> >
> >                                                   
> >                love,
> >                                                   
> >               Jasen.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "bb"
> <bbburtnick at webtv.net>
> > To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:13 PM
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
> >
> >
> >> I'm new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have
> signed on in hopes of
> >> discovering it's efficacy in detoxing from
> methadone. Then of course  
> >> is
> >> the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention
> proper application.  
> >> But
> >> first of all is the question of whether there is
> any genuine value for
> >> meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake
> comparatively, if you
> >> don't mind me saying so. (I've been there- trust
> me). Seems
> >> "rapid-detox" offers little hope of helping,
> unless perhaps if the
> >> problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life.
> So does ibogaine
> >> differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal
> anyway?
> >> Respectfully-bb
> >>
> > -=[/
> >
> >
> >
> If you are squeamish: don't prod the beach rubble.
> 	--Sappho
> -----------------=[/

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