(OT!) Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Preston Peet ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Wed Mar 9 09:47:40 EST 2005


I mistakenly and with careless speed scribbled >I didn't post it for it's 
"usefulness" Bill, and I'm not sure why you feel "these stories" should have 
to be useful at all.< I hate doing that and am extremely embarrassed that I 
put an apostrophe in "it's" when it obviously should read "its"- please 
fogive my humiliating and incredibly gauche usage of that apostrophe. It 
will NOT happen again.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Editor "Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Preston Peet" <ptpeet at nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query


> Bill Eichman wrote >A secondary point is that I'm surprized that this list 
> is so casual about
> demonizing any chemical.<
>
> Another big LOL!
> Bill, you're new here, right? This list is chock full of folk who insist 
> that some drugs are just evil, and should never be used by anyone ever and 
> that ibogaine is needed to get those people to stop what they're doing 
> right now because without it their lives are worth little to nothing at 
> all- and with others who are exactly the opposite. What ties us all in 
> together is our interest in ibogaine for whatever reason, or so I myself 
> think about this list and its subscribers and participants.
>    Just as with any group of people, the differences of opinion here range 
> widely and erratically all across the board, with some of us, like me, 
> insisting that drugs aren't the real problem, that prohibition is, and 
> others insisting that there isn't anything good about any drugs at all 
> (except of course ibogaine and sometimes marijuana and even that's 
> debatable), and others who fall anywhere in between these extremes.
>
> Bill also asked and noted >How do you know this? How certain are you that 
> this is real information, and
> not just more drug propaganda?
> What you are saying may be true- but... When I studied the question, which
> was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme 
> dosage
> studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
> collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended 
> up
> in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation.<
>
> You are totally and completely correct to point this out- I mean, take 
> into consideration the number of US figher pilots who use methamphetamines 
> on a daily basis and yet, no troubles whatsoever, and they're even using 
> the stuff to do their jobs BETTER- imagine that, meth makes it easier to 
> do one's job. Huh. Of course, after long hours of flying about in a big 
> fast warmachine with little sleep, sometimes accidents do happen, as was 
> the case in Afghanistan a couple years back when some US pilots bombed the 
> shit out of some Canadian troops on the ground while under the influence 
> of both methamphetamines AND lack of sleep. Apparently anyway.
>    It behooves us all to remember that despite many of our own horrific 
> experiences while abusing hard drugs, and the many stories we have most of 
> us heard and seen lived out by ourselves and by others, not everyone puts 
> themselves through such hell and many if not most people use their drugs 
> both hard and soft, legal and not-so-legal, rationally and with total 
> control, always. Weird how that works, but it's the reality of things as 
> near as I can tell from my well researched position here.
>
>>These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but 
>>(1)
> there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
> perhaps native schizophrenia,<
>
> Personally? I don't drink and haven't in some 20 years or so and wasn't 
> when this story I posted about the cocaine-influenced hallucinating took 
> place- having been drunk in these last 20 years about, oh, twice, maybe 
> three times total. Yes, there were other drugs involved (heroin in this 
> particular case) but as you yourself noted about lack of sleeping's 
> effects on folk, an extreme lack of sleep often played a part in my 
> overall experiences, as I was running the streets and staying awake up to 
> five days in a row, over and over and over again, running and shooting and 
> running and shooting until I couldn't possibly stay awake and score and 
> scam any more money no matter how much cocaine I shot and would finally 
> collapse. But I'm certainly NOT schizophrenic, except under the influence 
> of LOTS of cocaine- and even then I wouldn't call myself schizophrenic, 
> only manic and somewhat insane- and this is JUST ME I'm talking about.
>
>>and (2) I don't see how these stories are
> useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is 
> concerned.<
>
> I didn't post it for it's "usefulness" Bill, and I'm not sure why you feel 
> "these stories" should have to be useful at all. I posted it as an 
> entertaining misadventure tale I thought other people experienced with 
> many other illegal drugs might enjoy reading and learning about ONE 
> PERSON'S EXPERIENCES- mine.
>
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston
>
> "Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
> mistaken for madness"
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
> ptpeet at nyc.rr.com
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
> Editor "Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
> Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History" (due out Sept. 2005)
> Cont. High Times mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bill Eichman" <bille at penn.com>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
>
>
>> The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical probably
>> helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a 
>> family
>> trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than 
>> blaming
>> the individual, but that's another topic.)
>>
>> There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty years, 
>> and
>> most do not experience 'demonic' effects from the drug. So, if you start 
>> out
>> by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are going 
>> to
>> know you are full of shit.
>>
>> It's not likely to help Dana's aquaintance stop using.
>>
>> A secondary point is that I'm surprized that this list is so casual about
>> demonizing any chemical.
>>
>>> just for the record...methamphetamine can indeed induce hallucinations 
>>> and
>>> other psychotic symptoms (paranoia, delusions, etc) due to its actions 
>>> as
>>> a powerful dopamine agonist. (remember, anti-psychotic drugs basically
>>> work by doing the opposite of what meth does.)
>>>
>>> while it is probably true that the majority of meth users don't 
>>> experience
>>> such effects, it isn't just the lack of sleep that causes the psychotic
>>> symptoms (though that almost certainly aggravates them);
>>
>> How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, 
>> and
>> not just more drug propaganda?
>>
>> What you are saying may be true- but... When I studied the question, 
>> which
>> was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme 
>> dosage
>> studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, 
>> evidence
>> collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended 
>> up
>> in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation. When 
>> patients
>> got recuperative sleep, symptoms stopped, and the reports were that high
>> doses didn't cause delerium unless the sleep deprivation was also 
>> occuring.
>>
>> My sources for this info were from links gathered from alt.drugs posting,
>> and are some number of years old. Maybe there have been more 
>> authoritative
>> studies confirming the dopamine theory you mention, but if so I don't 
>> know
>> of them.
>>
>> I do know that I never experienced such hallucinations, and never saw 
>> others
>> display anything more than fairly mild delerium, usually after drinking
>> heavily with much sleep deprivation.
>>
>> These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but 
>> (1)
>> there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
>> perhaps native schizophrenia, and (2) I don't see how these stories are
>> useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is 
>> concerned.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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