Fw: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
rwd3 at cox.net
Mon Jan 31 18:23:29 EST 2005
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)
> this is off topic but may be relevant to some of the recent exchanges: it
> has nothing to do w/ ibo
> the tools to segregate junkies from the rest of society are being
> perfected in the criminal justice system. many states have enacted quasi
> criminal sanctions to sexual predators so that when they finish serving
> their sentence, they are evaluated by a group of shrinks who have trouble
> getting a practice started elsewhere who in turn determine whether the
> offender is likely to offend again or fit to return to society. if not
> fit, the offender gets an extended stay in a "special" hospital for an
> indefinite period of time. once or if released, the offender then must
> account for every move he or she makes, many having to wear gps monitors.
> bootstrap that with the anti terrorist laws and tools for law enforcement
> and there is an excellent blueprint for expanding the classes to fit into
> this model. i don't condone sexual predators or pedophiles but i have
> seen many a young adult get caught in this web for sexual conduct that was
> not even frowned upon a few decades ago.( e.g. 20 yr. old male having sex
> w/ 17 yr. old unmarried female w/o parental consent.). these offenders are
> marked, registered, and tracked relentlessly for the rest of their lives.
> many feel as though druggies are bad news, and some are, that undermine
> our culture and harm others. easy to keep an eye on them with this method,
> so everyone feels safe. we all know that users lack compassion for his
> neighbor and would do anything for his/her next fix. it would be nice to
> eliminate this threat from our communities. food for thought on an idle
> sunday. no personal opinion expressed.ron----- Original Message -----
> From: "tomo7" <tomo7 at starband.net>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:48 AM
> Subject: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction
> Hi Team Mindvox:
> I've enjoyed the concepts lately squeezed from Preston and Nick's snarly
> differences over libertarian defenses of junkie lifestyle choices. Both
> great writers and probably lovely people. Do the providers have input on
> as treatment for addiction to help return users to "health", versus Ibo as
> cool tool to help user down regulate freely chosen opiates as pain meds?
> can see Preston's point about "nobody gonna mess with my choice to use
> because I'm free" (sorry for abbreviated words in mouth, here), and I can
> see Nick's provocative fascist wake-up call to pull the covers off all the
> self medicated sleepy minions of Morphia. That side sounds pretty wicked
> unpleasant, images of cops and home invasions roll out over network TV all
> the time. The free will junkie lifestyle isn't exactly a picnic however.
> The issue of addiction versus free will gets right to the central vein
> (sorry, just had to..) of Ibogaine use. I like the practice of providing
> this tool to people who want out of their addiction, and it seems unique
> powerful in it's value for that. Do you providers take on clients who are
> not really looking for a way out of addiction? Maybe the mom or girlfriend
> are ragging on people but, naw, they really just like that dope.."
> Speaking only for myself, I can't see why it would be worth my time and
> energy to help the junkie have a better commercial relationship to his
> chosen pursuits. Yes, I bet Ibo would help a lot if used for that, but it
> would feel like such a wasted tool for liberation...OK, help the opiate
> better for a while, yawn, whatever...
> Central question: Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope
> treat? Or is free will use of great pain killers and ways to get high
> inherent right my neighborhood and I need to fight to protect? As long as
> people aren't in my face they should do what they want to pursue and even
> catch every happiness they can. No doubt. The Ibo list of PC thought from
> Francis was precious. Too true.
> Out here west of NYC, where gun control is a 4 inch group at 50 yards with
> your one-handed pistol shot, the idea of a junkie's rights to use gets a
> little abstract. My libertarian beliefs are ok, but when the drug cartel
> reps show up at your daughter's high school prom, some of us get nervous
> tend to reach for something meaner than a good fence purchase. Dirty Harry
> sold a lot of movies with the retribution schtick.
> As for all the civil liberty issues brought out in the War on Drugs info,
> there sure is a lot of sudden surprise and focus on the"dirty laundry"
> of the drug user "lifestyle". Dirt sells, for sure, but isn't it all
> getting hard to be shocked and amazed for you grownups that addiction
> Over 500 years since the Spanish Christian monarchs sent Columbus off to
> eliminate everyone non Spanish and Christian to generate revenue, and the
> war has been pretty world wide and constant for your mind, spirit, and
> ever since. Addiction has been a favorite controller tool for a long time.
> I don't know the experience of opiate addiction, thankfully, and no, I'll
> pass on those mashed potatoes too. For the proud, freethinker junkies and
> tweekers among us, does the free will model work for addiction or is there
> treatable illness there that loved ones might want to intervene with? When
> do your decisions start to forfeit your claim to civil rights? Let me
> Never mind the character jabs at me for asking, just come from your own
> knowledge. As for the social critique of unaware drug policies, this war
> the drug user is just the sneak preview for what's coming at us in Century
> 21, IMHO. Get clean, wake up, or don't. Your choice. In the bright future
> there will be a lot of available parking places, methinks.
> I'm gone, thanks for reading.
> Dr. Tom
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