Fw: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

Ron Davis rwd3 at cox.net
Mon Jan 31 18:23:29 EST 2005


----- >
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)


> this is off topic but may be relevant to some of the recent exchanges: it 
> has nothing to do w/ ibo
> the tools to segregate junkies from the rest of society are being 
> perfected in the criminal justice system.  many states have enacted quasi 
> criminal sanctions to sexual predators so that when they finish serving 
> their sentence,  they are evaluated by a group of shrinks who have trouble 
> getting a practice started elsewhere who in turn determine whether the 
> offender is likely to offend again or fit to return to society.  if not 
> fit,  the offender gets an extended stay in a "special" hospital for an 
> indefinite period of time. once or if released,  the offender then must 
> account for every move he or she makes,  many having to wear gps monitors. 
> bootstrap that with the anti terrorist laws and tools for law enforcement 
> and there is an excellent blueprint for expanding the classes to fit into 
> this model.  i don't condone sexual predators or pedophiles but i have 
> seen many a young adult get caught in this web for sexual conduct that was 
> not even frowned upon a few decades ago.( e.g. 20 yr. old male having sex 
> w/ 17 yr. old unmarried female w/o parental consent.). these offenders are 
> marked, registered, and tracked relentlessly for the rest of their lives. 
> many feel as though druggies are bad news, and some are,  that undermine 
> our culture and harm others. easy to keep an eye on them with this method, 
> so everyone feels safe.  we all know that users lack compassion for his 
> neighbor and would do anything for his/her next fix.  it would be nice to 
> eliminate this threat from our communities. food for thought on an idle 
> sunday. no personal opinion expressed.ron----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tomo7" <tomo7 at starband.net>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:48 AM
> Subject: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction
>
>
> Hi Team Mindvox:
>
> I've enjoyed the concepts lately squeezed from Preston and Nick's snarly
> differences over libertarian defenses of junkie lifestyle choices.  Both 
> are
> great writers and probably lovely people. Do the providers have input on 
> Ibo
> as treatment for addiction to help return users to "health", versus Ibo as
> cool tool to help user down regulate freely chosen opiates as pain meds? 
> I
> can see Preston's point about "nobody gonna mess with my choice to use
> because I'm free" (sorry for abbreviated words in mouth, here), and I can
> see Nick's provocative fascist wake-up call to pull the covers off all the
> self medicated sleepy minions of Morphia. That side sounds pretty wicked 
> and
> unpleasant, images of cops and home invasions roll out over network TV all
> the time. The free will junkie lifestyle isn't exactly a picnic however.
>
> The issue of addiction versus free will gets right to the central vein
> (sorry, just had to..) of Ibogaine use. I like the practice of providing
> this tool to people who want out of their addiction, and it seems unique 
> and
> powerful in it's value for that. Do you providers take on clients who are
> not really looking for a way out of addiction? Maybe the mom or girlfriend
> are ragging on people but, naw, they really just like that dope.."
>
> Speaking only for myself, I can't see why it would be worth my time and
> energy to help the junkie have a better commercial relationship to his
> chosen pursuits. Yes, I bet Ibo would help a lot if used for that, but it
> would feel like such a wasted tool for liberation...OK, help the opiate 
> feel
> better for a while, yawn, whatever...
>
> Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope 
> to
> treat?  Or is free will use of great pain killers and ways to get high 
> some
> inherent right my neighborhood and I need to fight to protect? As long as
> people aren't in my face they should do what they want  to pursue and even
> catch every happiness they can. No doubt. The Ibo list of PC thought from
> Francis was precious. Too true.
>
> Out here west of NYC, where gun control is a 4 inch group at 50 yards with
> your one-handed pistol shot, the idea of a junkie's rights to use gets a
> little abstract. My libertarian beliefs are ok, but when the drug cartel
> reps show up at your daughter's high school prom, some of us get nervous 
> and
> tend to reach for something meaner than a good fence purchase. Dirty Harry
> sold a lot of movies with the retribution schtick.
>
> As for all the civil liberty issues brought out in the War on Drugs info,
> there sure is a lot of sudden surprise and focus on the"dirty laundry" 
> side
> of the drug user "lifestyle".  Dirt sells, for sure, but isn't it all
> getting hard to be shocked and amazed for you grownups that addiction 
> sucks?
> Over 500 years since the Spanish Christian monarchs sent Columbus off to
> eliminate everyone non Spanish and Christian to generate revenue, and the
> war has been pretty world wide and constant for your mind, spirit, and 
> soul
> ever since. Addiction has been a favorite controller tool for a long time.
>
> I don't know the experience of opiate addiction, thankfully, and no, I'll
> pass on those mashed potatoes too.  For the proud, freethinker junkies and
> tweekers among us, does the free will model work for addiction or is there 
> a
> treatable illness there that loved ones might want to intervene with? When
> do your decisions start to forfeit your claim to civil rights? Let me 
> know.
> Never mind the character jabs at me for asking, just come from your own
> knowledge. As for the social critique of unaware drug policies, this war 
> on
> the drug user is just the sneak preview for what's coming at us in Century
> 21, IMHO. Get clean, wake up, or don't. Your choice. In the bright future
> there will be a lot of available parking places, methinks.
>
> I'm gone, thanks for reading.
>
> Dr. Tom
>
>
>
> 
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