[Ibogaine]-Free will vs. Addiction:reply,re-query

tomo7 tomo7 at starband.net
Mon Jan 31 12:41:15 EST 2005


Randy, and other responders:

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. Honestly, Randy, that gun control is
what I aspire to, but my groups are 6" or more, and a few strays with a
Glock .40, not that target Ruger. More practice helps everything.

I hear your concern about the need for pain relief.  Pain is a complete drag
and I'm sure it pulls many into addiction. I think Opium is the best proof
that God has mercy for suffering humans. As relief in terminal intractable
pain, the morphine drip is merciful release for those clearly not coming
back to health and function before they depart. Pain has purpose and keeps
the healthy immune system targeted on what needs fixing. A good physician,
or a caring friend will always want to help one to stop hurting and repair
the cause of the pain. In practice, the blockade of pain with opiates seems
to block the healing process as well, but even there the Kevorkian call has
plenty of room for free will and medical judgment.

It is sad that Preston suffers, and also we all lose his writing talent if
pain debilitates him. I don't think Opiates should be unavailable, or
Ibogaine either. And evidently many doctors are normal people too, with high
rates of addiction among themselves. Your view about better training is
right on point.  We should have some advising board at the medical schools
that can require sensible knowledge about opiate use, before the wound up
new doc is let loose on the public. Most also agree that the current
murderous status quo suits the beneficiaries of that profit stream just
fine. Social change won't be driven by it's victims any time soon. Medical
education has been owned and directed by and for the same profiteers from
this war on drug users, for a long damn time.  

The opiate doesn't heal the pain or it wouldn't re-appear when the opiate
wears off.  Opiates are temporary relief from the feeling of pain.  For the
mindvox record, I don't judge anyone for doing anything in reach to lessen
their pain,  and, I don't begrudge anyone the right to take a drug because
they want to just get high and feel good. I hope to hear of their success.
My flirtation was with Lady Cannabis, over the years, back when I had sparky
adrenals, but I'm still partial to the concept. 

So, while I sympathize with Preston's Skag Swat Team solution, for certain
high profile war criminals and corrupt public servants, complete with a few
rapid detox sessions for the sheer poetry of it, I rather sympathize with
every society's efforts to protect community health and safety. I heard Nick
being about there with his original 'druthers' too. If they just weren't
arming the wolves to protect the sheep, drug laws could be useful.

People should do what they want with their own life and choices, and get
with cause and effect. Jason's analogy of love and force as oil and water
was nice. Sara's clarity on "tuff love" works for me too, having seen
forceful interventions
save lives and families. Your sentence, "To me, Ibogaine is about 
the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I
personally 
know of", just about nails it.

As I endorse treating addiction with I., it doesn't follow that I oppose
pain medication with Opiates. Re-read that, please. Up until someone messes
with me or endangers my family, the benefit of the doubt goes to whoever
wants to pursue their truth, however, whenever. 

Drugs are great, sometimes, if they aren't dosed with ignorance, greed,
fear, and delusion. But here we are in America, where they usually are,
whether legal or not. It's not like it's a "free country" or anything,
unless you've been on a Rip Van Winkle nap. Powerful anything..drugs, health
foods, telecommunications, weapons, etc. are all about advantages in the war
on your individuality and light.  I notice that all the "wars d'jour" aren't
going so well for our side. Sorry if that's a bit "negative".  

Along comes an unusual plant medicine that actually helps in a desperate
addiction situation (which is profitable and beneficial for the economic
rulers).  Should that medicine merit study and effort at understanding it by
professionals? Or, would the greater good be drug store pez dispensers with
the self medication of Ibo in reach for anyone with a candy bar budget?
Though not a pain killer, it would probably work better at pain control than
many of our common "remedies", in just not causing  pain and disability,
like the wildly popular NSAIDS.  

But, Ibo is just too much damn work to ever pretend at being a party drug.
Very little "abuse potential", at least for more than once. I don't know if
I'm enough of an optimistic anarchist to think the public would get that Pez
candy format right. But hey, it wouldn't be a lot worse than the anti-life
OTC market we have the "freedom" to enjoy right now. 

My question is do the providers aim their therapy at addiction when the
patient is ambivalent and holding nearby drugs to re-medicate after the
session?  Reminding the inexperienced, the re-sensitising of O. receptors
that takes place during Ibo sessions can make a formerly OK dose become far
more dangerous. The few deaths reported have been from that scenario, and
undisclosed health problems. Do providers screen their clients medically, or
not? Do you think they should, morally? Or, should the pixilated pez sit
next to the nicotine, alcohol, junk food and Vicodin in your kid's high
school vending machines?

Shouts to the list people with juice and passion to share here!

Dr. Tom


From: BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714 at aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:21 AM
To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction


Dr. Tom, I read your post the other day and didn't have time to give it the 
thought that it deserves, I have time now. First off, I'm not a provider but
I 
know a few and I'd like to say something here. LOL I have to see that 4 inch

group offhand at 50 yards. I might be able to get 4 inch groups with a Ruger
Mk 
II but with 2 hands and a rest. 'Nuff' jokin', this is serious. This issue 
needs to be addressed. When I had my treatment everyone, and I mean everyone

wanted to know about my aftercare and plans for the future to the point that
it 
irratated me. Turns out that they were right about therapy by the way.
Nobody 
that I know of will treat anyone just to make it easier to get high. This
has 
probably been hashed out allready, I haven't had time to read everthing on
the 
list for days now, but I have to say this. Have you ever met Preston? I
have, 
and maybe I'm just too sensitive, but I swear I could see the pain in his
face 
when he had to move around. Does he or anyone else with as many pain issues 
as he has not have the right to try and make his life easier to deal with? 
That's not a decision I would make carte blanch (where the hell is the spell

checker on this thing?) about anyone. Besides if I had my way Ibogaine would
be 
legal and this would be a mute point. If I was a provider I would have to
take 
all things into consideration on an individual basis. To me, Ibogaine is
about 
the choices it gives you and the best route out of addiction that I
personaly 
know of. I've been addicted off and on since the 70's to oppiates. This is
the 
first time I have felt good about being clean since I shot Morphine when I
was 
15 years old. I didn't really see how it could work for me but I tried 
anyway. It worked. How do we know who it will work for and who it won't?
There is a 
screening process and I'd have to say that to the man everyone treated here
of 
late in the NYC area truly wanted to get clean. I hope Preston doesn't mind 
me saying this but I would imagine if he could have been clean AND free of
pain 
he probably would have loved it. That didn't happen for him and I wish it 
had. Ibogaine is medicine and should be treated that way. Oppiates are
medicine 
too, just look at all those 'scripts that get written for them. Dr.'s give
out 
an addictive substance all day long and the government won't let people who 
want out of addiction have the single most effective way of dealing with
that 
addiction legaly obtain Ibogaine. That almost seems evil to me. There should
be 
Ibogaine information in every Dr.'s office and Methadone clinic in the US.
I'm 
covering my end on that, how 'bout you? I've said it before and I'll say it 
again, I won't shut up until every addict that I know of at least knows that

there is another way out. I pay close attention to everything you say and
I'm 
glad that you brought this up. When I get back to the Catskills I'm gonna'
work 
on my one handed shot.hehehehe        Randy






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