[Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction(OT)

Ron Davis rwd3 at cox.net
Sun Jan 30 14:50:58 EST 2005


this is off topic but may be relevant to some of the recent exchanges: it 
has nothing to do w/ ibo
the tools to segregate junkies from the rest of society are being perfected 
in the criminal justice system.  many states have enacted quasi criminal 
sanctions to sexual predators so that when they finish serving their 
sentence,  they are evaluated by a group of shrinks who have trouble getting 
a practice started elsewhere who in turn determine whether the offender is 
likely to offend again or fit to return to society.  if not fit,  the 
offender gets an extended stay in a "special" hospital for an indefinite 
period of time. once or if released,  the offender then must account for 
every move he or she makes,  many having to wear gps monitors.  bootstrap 
that with the anti terrorist laws and tools for law enforcement and there is 
an excellent blueprint for expanding the classes to fit into this model.  i 
don't condone sexual predators or pedophiles but i have seen many a young 
adult get caught in this web for sexual conduct that was not even frowned 
upon a few decades ago.( e.g. 20 yr. old male having sex w/ 17 yr. old 
unmarried female w/o parental consent.). these offenders are marked, 
registered, and tracked relentlessly for the rest of their lives. many feel 
as though druggies are bad news, and some are,  that undermine our culture 
and harm others. easy to keep an eye on them with this method,  so everyone 
feels safe.  we all know that users lack compassion for his neighbor and 
would do anything for his/her next fix.  it would be nice to eliminate this 
threat from our communities. food for thought on an idle sunday. no personal 
opinion expressed.ron----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tomo7" <tomo7 at starband.net>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:48 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine]-Provider question: Free will vs. Addiction


Hi Team Mindvox:

I've enjoyed the concepts lately squeezed from Preston and Nick's snarly
differences over libertarian defenses of junkie lifestyle choices.  Both are
great writers and probably lovely people. Do the providers have input on Ibo
as treatment for addiction to help return users to "health", versus Ibo as
cool tool to help user down regulate freely chosen opiates as pain meds?  I
can see Preston's point about "nobody gonna mess with my choice to use
because I'm free" (sorry for abbreviated words in mouth, here), and I can
see Nick's provocative fascist wake-up call to pull the covers off all the
self medicated sleepy minions of Morphia. That side sounds pretty wicked and
unpleasant, images of cops and home invasions roll out over network TV all
the time. The free will junkie lifestyle isn't exactly a picnic however.

The issue of addiction versus free will gets right to the central vein
(sorry, just had to..) of Ibogaine use. I like the practice of providing
this tool to people who want out of their addiction, and it seems unique and
powerful in it's value for that. Do you providers take on clients who are
not really looking for a way out of addiction? Maybe the mom or girlfriend
are ragging on people but, naw, they really just like that dope.."

Speaking only for myself, I can't see why it would be worth my time and
energy to help the junkie have a better commercial relationship to his
chosen pursuits. Yes, I bet Ibo would help a lot if used for that, but it
would feel like such a wasted tool for liberation...OK, help the opiate feel
better for a while, yawn, whatever...

Central question:   Is addiction a disease or illness that providers hope to
treat?  Or is free will use of great pain killers and ways to get high some
inherent right my neighborhood and I need to fight to protect? As long as
people aren't in my face they should do what they want  to pursue and even
catch every happiness they can. No doubt. The Ibo list of PC thought from
Francis was precious. Too true.

Out here west of NYC, where gun control is a 4 inch group at 50 yards with
your one-handed pistol shot, the idea of a junkie's rights to use gets a
little abstract. My libertarian beliefs are ok, but when the drug cartel
reps show up at your daughter's high school prom, some of us get nervous and
tend to reach for something meaner than a good fence purchase. Dirty Harry
sold a lot of movies with the retribution schtick.

As for all the civil liberty issues brought out in the War on Drugs info,
there sure is a lot of sudden surprise and focus on the"dirty laundry" side
of the drug user "lifestyle".  Dirt sells, for sure, but isn't it all
getting hard to be shocked and amazed for you grownups that addiction sucks?
Over 500 years since the Spanish Christian monarchs sent Columbus off to
eliminate everyone non Spanish and Christian to generate revenue, and the
war has been pretty world wide and constant for your mind, spirit, and soul
ever since. Addiction has been a favorite controller tool for a long time.

I don't know the experience of opiate addiction, thankfully, and no, I'll
pass on those mashed potatoes too.  For the proud, freethinker junkies and
tweekers among us, does the free will model work for addiction or is there a
treatable illness there that loved ones might want to intervene with? When
do your decisions start to forfeit your claim to civil rights? Let me know.
Never mind the character jabs at me for asking, just come from your own
knowledge. As for the social critique of unaware drug policies, this war on
the drug user is just the sneak preview for what's coming at us in Century
21, IMHO. Get clean, wake up, or don't. Your choice. In the bright future
there will be a lot of available parking places, methinks.

I'm gone, thanks for reading.

Dr. Tom



  /]=---------------------------------------------------------------------=[\
 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html 
[%]
  \]=---------------------------------------------------------------------=[/







More information about the Ibogaine mailing list