[Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

nick227 at tiscali.co.uk nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Sun Jan 30 09:57:19 EST 2005

>-- Original Message --
>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>From: ekki <ekkijdfg at gmx.de>
>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:39:35 +0100
>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
>>> 2) what is wrong with being desenfranchised from society? think about
>>> jesus. i surely don´t want to be part of mainstream society in its
>>> present state.
>> Jesus wasn't "emotionally disenfranchised." That is what I wrote, not

>> just
>> disenfranchised.
>> One of things you can get from time in a therapeutic community is that
>> you
>> can learn the value of being straight with people, man. You don't have
>> to
>> MANIPULATE what others are saying in order to put a counterposing point
>> across, which is, frankly, pretty much all I see happening here on this
>> list with this thread. Not just you by any means. And for sure I've 
>> done
>> plenty of it in the past. You can just be straight and state your 
>> opinion.
>> You have the right. If you don't agree then say you don't agree. It's

>> fine.
>> I state an opinion and nobody on this list opposes it directly. All 
>> they
>> do is twist it around into different interpretations and present 
>> counter-ideas
>> to their own interpretations - reacting with the same learned defensive
>> responses they've no doubt been carrying around their whole lives. Shit
>> man, that is pure 100% junkie behaviour - low self esteem covered over
>> with
>> layers of bullshit and defence. You think ibogaine is going to stop 
>> that?
>> All ibogaine can do is throw it in your face and hope you don't avoid.
>> You have a right to your opinions. You don't have to twist things 
>> around.
>> If you don't like something just say so! Be straight. It's ok.
>> Now I feel like some kind of schoolteacher!
>sorry nick, i didn´t consciously want to manipulate what you are saying.
>  i´m not a native speaker and i enjoy improving my skills in written 
>english. i had to look up the word "disenfranchised" in my online 
>dictionary. it says: "deprived of the rights of citizenship especially

>the right to vote". what does "emotionally disenfranchised" then 
>exactly mean? maybe jesus was a bad example.

Hi Ekki,

OK, fair enough. I was just using it as an example to put a viewpoint across.
That's me, manipulating away as usual!

>> Yes, I agree. Addiction is a great learning. You've got the learning

>> Ekki,
>> do you not agree it's great if others get it too?
>> love
>> Nick
>i also agree with you.
>do you mean others should become addicted,too, to get the learning? 
>just kiddin("twist it around into different interpretations")
>  i´m thinking about founding my own self-help group for ex-junkies 
>deprieved of their drivers licence. we could share taxicabs and i could

>spread the gospel of bwiti.
>...peace... &LOVE

Sounds good. I'm sorry about your girlfriend. My brother was the same. He
took 4-5 big doses of ibogaine in the late 90s but would never stay off.
He was always happy to talk about getting off and eventually I realized
that was as far as he was prepared to go. 



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Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
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