[Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

nick227 at tiscali.co.uk nick227 at tiscali.co.uk
Sun Jan 30 05:47:46 EST 2005

>-- Original Message --
>Reply-To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>From: ekki 
>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:05:29 +0100
>To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
>Am 29.01.2005 um 16:07 schrieb Nick Sandberg:
>> I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
>> analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one's time on this planet,
>> (unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with
>> regard to
>> the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating
>> orientation and
>> I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
>> individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our
>> planetary
>> life. Even worse, it's a fucking drag. That's my position!
>> with love
>> Nick
>1) i wouldnt trust medical professionals so much. a lot of people get
>hooked on opioids by their physician in cases where it wouldn´t have
>been necessary. the pharmaceutical industry is pushing the use of
>opioids and anti-depressants. also a lot of medical professionals are
>addicted themselves to prescription painkillers since they have easy
>access. in addition i know lots of people whos health was seriously
>harmed by doctors due to wrong treatment/medication.

Hi Ekki,

This is true.

>2) what is wrong with being desenfranchised from society? think about
>jesus. i surely don´t want to be part of mainstream society in its
>present state.

Jesus wasn't "emotionally disenfranchised." That is what I wrote, not just

One of things you can get from time in a therapeutic community is that you
can learn the value of being straight with people, man. You don't have to
MANIPULATE what others are saying in order to put a counterposing point
across, which is, frankly, pretty much all I see happening here on this
list with this thread. Not just you by any means. And for sure I've done
plenty of it in the past. You can just be straight and state your opinion.
You have the right. If you don't agree then say you don't agree. It's fine.

I state an opinion and nobody on this list opposes it directly. All they
do is twist it around into different interpretations and present counter-ideas
to their own interpretations - reacting with the same learned defensive
responses they've no doubt been carrying around their whole lives. Shit
man, that is pure 100% junkie behaviour - low self esteem covered over with
layers of bullshit and defence. You think ibogaine is going to stop that?
All ibogaine can do is throw it in your face and hope you don't avoid.

You have a right to your opinions. You don't have to twist things around.
If you don't like something just say so! Be straight. It's ok.

Now I feel like some kind of schoolteacher!

>3) i never did regret taking opiates, but i´m happy i stopped now with

>the help of ibogain.
>being never such a hardcore junky i don´t know how it is for people who

>spend 20+ years being strung-out, but with my 4 years i found heroin a

>very valuable experience, including the cold turkeys and so on. you can

>learn a lot from addiction which may even have a good effect on our
>planetary life, since addiction is a model for control mechanisms in
>general you have to get free of.
>there are and have been so many great people who have "administered a
>high-powered analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one's time on

>this planet" that i wouldn´t condem it on the whole. think about
>writers and musicians.

Yes, I agree. Addiction is a great learning. You've got the learning Ekki,
do you not agree it's great if others get it too?



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