Jasen Chamoun jasenhappy at optusnet.com.au
Sun Jan 30 00:44:53 EST 2005

Maybe,..just maybe,

This is what they choose to experience.

Maybe their is a reason,a reason
we are not aware of.

Maybe some of us need to experience a life
negating experience,..for whatever reason.

Maybe,..say,..to understand the power of addiction.

What we need more of is understanding ,love and
nonjudgement,..force kills all three.

As the saying goes,
A man convinced against his will is of the same
opinion still.

 Mixing love with force is like mixing
oil and water,..they both have their purpose,.but
they just don't mix.

I understand that you just want to help. I feel, in
my humble opinion the best way to do this is to
just be there when help is asked,..when a person
is ready to help themselves.

                      with love

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick

. I do not agree that it is valid to administer a high-powered
> analgesic to oneself for a large portion of one's time on this planet,
> (unless this is a strategy agreed on by medical professionals with regard
> to
> the individual). My opinion is that this is a life-negating orientation
> and
> I oppose it. I believe that doing so emotionally disenfranchises the
> individual from society with overall deleterious effects on our planetary
> life. Even worse, it's a fucking drag. That's my position!
> with love
> Nick
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HSLotsof at aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof at aol.com]
>> Sent: 29 January 2005 13:38
>> To: ibogaine at mindvox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Francis and Nick
>> In a message dated 1/29/05 6:04:03 AM, nick227 at tiscali.co.uk writes:
>> >
>> >Same thing in these dialogues. Granted it's only a few people
>> that respond
>> >but basically all I have said is that I support the German government in
>> >its moves to curb addiction and that sometimes I feel like
>> dragging people
>> >out of their homes to participate in life a bit more. From this
>> it's like,
>> >I'm a nazi or it's to do with the jews in the war or Christ
>> knows what. To
>> me,
>> >to be honest, this is just the basic layer of resistance the
>> psyche has to
>> >the idea of change. I see it when I'm doing therapist work all the time.
>> People
>> >want to shoot me up with gear, well, so what, I could do with a bit more
>> >rest at times anyway. Preston's there shaking his head so much it's
>> >about
>> >to fall off or something, yeah well that's life.
>> Hi Nick,
>> Did you read Peter Cohen's writing in the HRC ibogaine roundtable
>> report.
>> Peter got dana quite upset but, I think his writing may be
>> directed more at you.
>>  What do you think of his thoughts?
>> http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html
>> (see ibogaine roundtable review and the link to his full article
>> from there
>> if you wish).  It seems to me that over the years you have gone
>> from a "world
>> is doom" to a "world should be controlled" philosophy and that of
>> course is not
>> an unnatural course or events.  It is just that that control
>> concept in the
>> US with prohibition and our prison industrial complex gives me a lot of
>> concern.  And I guess it is not just the US but, I am here.
>> Howard
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