[Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism

walt denton wally1 at willitsonline.com
Sat Jan 29 20:44:11 EST 2005


Actually, I agree with much of Nick's analysis of the mechanics of
self-sabotage, self-repression, pain
avoidance, etc. as far as it goes.  Of course "as far as it goes" is the key
phrase and when in our zeal
we misjudge this it often leads inexorably to disastrous results.  On every
level.  For ourselves and
for all those unfortunate enough to fall within the reach of our righteous
power.  We all know these
misjugments have produced so much of the mischief and suffering in this
world and yet we can never
really imagine it could apply to us as we gallop forth to set things right.

Who among us can really say with certainty that we possess the degree of
uncompromising and
fearless self-honesty that surely is necessary before we can bet OTHER
peoples lives on our
prescriptions and conclusions.  Who, after even a moments honest self
reflection can raise his or
her hand?.......I'm ignoring Nick waving his arm furiously.  It doesn't
count if the arm is always raised.

Walt
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "....Ken" <chayco at island.net>
To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and scary fascism


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Sandberg" <nick227 at tiscali.co.uk>
> To: <ibogaine at mindvox.com>
> >
> >
> > Ken, man, I am fine with empathy. But it is not the only tool in
therapy.
>
> > There's come a point where, if you care, you have to not just sit by
> > empathising while people are destroying themselves. You can start to
take
> a
> > position, this is also possible. This is what I am learning to do.
> >
> > About Thailand, I did not know that this was happening. Can I ask you,
is
> it
> > your position that you believe that in Europe and the US a simiar thing
> > would happen? Is that what you genuinely believe? If "Yes" then I think
> it's
> > fine you resist, if you are in genuine fear of your life. Who wouldn't.
>
> Hello Nick,
>
> I believe you may not quite understand what empathy means....but lets
leave
> that.
>
> I believe something similar could possibly happen in the U.S. ,but most
> probably not in Europe and Canada.
> The American peoples complicity regarding the attack on Iraq showed just
how
> fearful the average American is of
> showing dissent towards their government when it has the bloodlust.
>
> The trouble with 'resisting' is that these programs only affect the weak
and
> are supported by the comfortable. You say "who wouldn't"....(resist) .
Nick
> ,would you assist drug addicts and from being rounded up and placed in
> 'detox camps'  against their will ? When the round up was going on in
> Thailand the general population supported it, these were 'bad' people. The
> ones who were killed was by 'accident' or the police were provoked, or it
> really was druggies shooting each other, all within three months....then
it
> stopped, wars over folks. Today, there is some collective guilt concerning
> the killings, but at the time the country was in bloodlust and the
> government brooked no dissent.
>
> There might be a few books you could read concerning social engineeing.
>
>                                                ...Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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